the simplest client-server tutorial you can imagine...

Hi There,

I have been trying for months and months to get into the back-end of things, because all the design and basic DHTML know-how in the world is useless to me now that I have people wanting me to build dynamic sites (i.e., with users, an intrinsic search engine database, etc.).

Would it be very presumptuous of me to ask someone here to help me write a very simple client-server page, say something that just inputs a person's name and stores it into a database if they have never entered their name before, or says 'you have been here before' if they enter their name and it's already in the database. And then give me the basics of how to get that running online?

What are the basics for this from beginning to end? Can I use Access to enter and query the name entered? I have win XP Home but can get a different version of Windows if I must. Do I need mysql (I've downloaded and unzipped that but there's no .exe anywhere, so I don't know how it works?)

I have ftp space (50meg) with my ISP provider, and I have ftp'ed plenty of static html (apparently, as long as I don't use the standard port, I can do client-server programming with it).

I know the basic principals, you have an HTML page that communicates with a php or mysql or access server page, but is it just as simple as writing the html page the user works with, uploading that to my server space; then building a simple (in this case) page in .asp or .php or sql...then what? Upload that to the server too and things just start communicating according to the code?

I am sorry for asking such a huge question, but I have a client now who has entrusted me to build him a full community with an intrinsic search engine, leased forum software (I'm hoping for vBulletin), chatting, etc. all with a login and password in order to enter. He has given me all the time I need to learn, and he is willing to give me the money needed if he needs anything in particular, but I'm not getting anywhere yet because the most basic principals are difficult to come by from html page to server page to uploading and having the thing run LOL.

If someonce could even just articulate the basics of my question above (input a person's name and store it in a database if they have never entered their name before, or say 'you have been here before' if they enter their name and it's already in the database) I'd be much farther ahead than I am now.

Thanks for bearing with me. I appreciate any advice you have to offer (other than a valium or a good shot of rye LOL)


Shawn

Greets, Shawn

I am not exactly sure what do you expect from us, because providing as little details as you have one cannot possibly hope to get something done.

If you really want to learn, the best thing for you would be to first download apache and install it. Then get php and mysql, as they are by far the easiest tools in the toolbox. After you get those 3 hooked up and talking to each other, you can start reading articles here on devshed about php, which should be fairly easy to pick up and get you going in may be 3 days. If you need some basic tutes on how set it up and get started, ask and we'll post some links.

I reckon, if you do things correctly, you will be able to write such simple scripts by yourself in one week tops. Don't be afraid to ask questions as long as they are specific and related to open source development, guys here will be glad to help out.

P.S. gosh, don't I wish I had such an employer...

Thanks Al

OK I'll get the software you've noted up and running. What I'm finding the most difficult is the...communicating and linking of pages. I'm sure once I know how to set things up to communicate, the languages themselves will be easy to swallow in little chunks.

My first task is going to be to build that little thing I wrote about before, and I'm guessing I can build the user-interface in html essentially, upload that to my serverspace, and as I get to know these programs you've mentioned the rest will slowly fall into place.

If only it were as simple as Building it in Access and using a Save As Webpage Wizard from there LOL

Thanks for your help, already 3 steps ahead of the game.

Shawn

Quick newbie question: what OS should I be running? I've got WinXP Home right now, but can get NT and 2000...

For development - either, for real life prudction - neither.
If you're on xp right now, don't bother installing anything else as apache/mysql/php combo works just fine there. It's mod_perl which gives you head ache, but you're not using it for now.]

And one more thing, try to forget about all this wizards and WYSIWY(sometimes)G - they are not worthy of your time.

Thanks Al. I'm installing Apache on the weekend. Going to get a few O'Reilly Reference books on cgi, the server languages, etc. since they've been so useful with DHTML JS and Flash.

Any reccommendations to that end?

Shawn

O'Reilly books are usually some of the best out there.

A couple of questions: Your isp, what setup does it have? It is a linux server? Using PHP & MySQL? (If the isp is using linux then that is most likely a yes to the second question)

The reason I ask is because you at least need to match the tools that your isp has for your home so that what you build on the home side of things will work on the isp side.
i.e. You can't use COM objects on linux servers since this is a windows only technology.

As Al stated earlier, PHP and MySQL are by far the easiest tools to learn to use. After you have them up and running then check out the beginning tutorial on php and devshed, these should get you going in the right direction quickly enough.

If you have any other problems, please post back and the people here will help where they can.

The best I can do to answer is say: I use Rogers hi-speed cable at home for my ISP. I asked them yesterday if I can upgrade to their Business Solution so I can start using server-side technologies, and they said I can't switch because of zoning (???).

I am currently considering keeping Rogers as my ISP, but using this service: http://www.canhost.ca/infrastructure.html for web-hosting until I get a better grasp and buy a server myself.

One step at a time for me, but definitely moving forward...or trying to

Thanks for your help

Shawn

This hosting company provides php, but it is version 3. This means that if you intend on using php as your scripting language then you have to be extra carefull to make sure that what you write is backwards compatible to this version. This can be a PITA when it comes down to it.
You can also opt for using perl or asp as the language of choice, but asp is not a free technology as php and perl is.

Which of these languages most closely resembles front-end languages like js and the standard dhtml? I want to get going on this, but I need to do it practically (not possible without a server) so I don't know if having php3 is a bad thing or not?

Shawn

erm, php as a fron-end language - that's a thought
Firstly, php is purely server side, so none of your presentation will be, or can be, affected by php. Then, php3 is just old and almost dead pre-historical version of php, and no one in sound mind would use it if they have option of php4 vb php3.

Note, I say 'almost dead' because there are still geniuses out there who don't feel like upgrading their boxes. They are still hosting on 486 with php3, otherwise php3 would have been gone for ages now.