Page 2 - problem with make buildworld

>> he has a lot of knowledge on servers, so he does work with *BSDs boxes as servers

You are right. Note, unlike a devshed newbie whose usename is called phoenix_rizzen, keep trying to be a smartass, that's fine with me. I do respect and appreciate many of his posts and knowledge except his comment on RELEASE vs STABLE.
And he's been posting (probably copy + paste) the same shi_t all over the places.

Being a "devshed newbie" has no bearing on my knowledge/experience of/with FreeBSD.

However, recommending -STABLE over -RELEASE *does* reflect badly on one's knowledge of FreeBSD, especially when those recommendations are going to FreeBSD newbies.

>> when those recommendations are going to FreeBSD newbies

Since when or which post did you hear me recommending that to FreeBSD newbies?
I did say buildworld + cvsup + recompile a custom kernel are essentials and probably the within the top 10s. I didn't say a newbie should do it immediately because a newbie of course is incapble to handle that.
If you have something more productive to say, just do it. Stop revising my wordings with something I have never said before. And stop repeating the same shi_t all over the posts as it's a childish behavior.

Finally if you have that many guts, just a new topic named FreeBSD STABLE vs RELEASE and I can't wait to flame with you.

From here:

From here:

From here:

These are just from the past couple weeks/threads. I'm sure if I went back through all 2800 of your posts I'd find more.

Note how in each case listed above you are advocating that new users jump straight into 4-STABLE (since that's what snapshots are). Note also how you consider jumping to -STABLE to be one of the top 10 things a newbie should do. Sounds to me like you are telling newbies to use -STABLE right off the bat.



I'm not "revising" your words. I'm not even taking them out of context. The many threads in this forum all show you telling newbies to jump to -STABLE. Newbies should not be using a moving target. They should be using -RELEASE until they understand how the system works, then move on to -STABLE or -CURRENT or whatever they feel they need/want to use.

Repetition is not a sign of childish behavious. Resorting to name calling, swearing, ad hominem attacks, and the like are. Starting new threads with the sole intention of "flaming" is. Make note of which ones you are doing.



Why would I engage in a crazy-*** mud-slinging flame-fest when I can logically just disprove your posts in the threads they are in??

Thank you for your finding of my posts, I'm too lazy on that.
For the 1st one, I said those because I've seen so many FreeBSD newbies installing hundreds of software during initial installation (using /stand/sysinstall). Right, buildworld might not be within top 10, but it definitely has a higher preference than those precompiled software (packages).
Those newbies, when not learning the right way or approach, they really ain't real user.
As for the 2nd one, like the 1st one, those newbies might do things right but they are not doing the right thing because they don't follow the right order.
For the 3rd or last one regarding to starting with a -RELEASE branch vs. -STABLE (daily snapshot) branch, this is basically what you are complaining and disagree with.

>> Sounds to me like you are telling newbies to use -STABLE right off the bat

Exactly because of the following reasons:
1) As for installing FreeBSD from a daily snapshot (4.5-STABLE), the procedure is the same as if it was a 4.5-RELEASE.
2) As a newbie, most of them (if not all) don't have a clue how to apply patches of bug fixes. As a result, they can be running a highly vulnerable OS until they figure out how, which could take days or months.
This is always true because 4.X-RELEASE or whatever latest RELEASE always come with some kind of exploits or bugs after release. Not to mention when the lastest -RELEASE had been released few months back from the time you are trying to start a fresh install.
3) The latest daily snapshot might not be most stable branch but it definitely is the most secure (with the latest bugfixes included) branch and it's up-to-date at the very least.

>> They should be using -RELEASE until they understand how the system works

Like I said above, a -RELEASE branch is always LESS SECURE than the latest -STABLE branch. Despite our different recommendations and learning approaches, I still recommend a newbie to go for -STABLE asap, simply because I'm more of a security wise user and you seem to be concern about stability don't care about security.

>> Newbies should not be using a moving target

Why not, the src of -STABLE branch is changing continuously to make it more secure + stable (that's why it's called STABLE branch in the first place). Unlike your believe that there are too many development going on and committed to the src of -STABLE.
In fact, it's relatively hard for something being currently developed in -CURRENT to make it in -STABLE.

The only time a -RELEASE branch is better (in terms of stability and security) than -STABLE is when that -RELEASE has just been released and that -STABLE code is still being freezed.

Really, -STABLE branch in FreeBSD is stable enough that all real users should be tracking on.

>> I have never seen freebsd give bad advice

You are right. I'd never give bad advice. Although I do admit that my advices have always been aggressive but they can't be the wrong recommendations. When you are part of FreeBSD core developers, you just can't recommend something otherwise that would defeat your core decisions, just to name a few:

1) users should run latest release branch
2) users should use GENERIC kernel
3) users should use sendmail and BIND because we choose them (our decision) to be in the base system

Now that you know these people are way too conservative at all time, at least for what they say to the public, and they often do the opposite way in real life.