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  #1  
Old April 26th, 2005, 08:05 PM
help_me_im_lost help_me_im_lost is offline
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needing advice on if I can take down a non paying persons website

I am a contractor with a company that originally asked me to
work for him as a PC Repair Tech. During this time, I had MANY pay
problems with him. For work that was preformed it took him allmost
forever to get me my money and at several times he would split the
payments up because he couldnt afford it and without my permission.

So in order to help him I said that I would be willing to work on
projects that he gets me dependant on a Statement of work where I
transfered it over to him and I was doing this from the outside.I
never signed anything saying I was doing work otherwise or directly
for him. On several occasions he asked that I represented myself as a
lightlane employee and that I didnt contact the clients directly, he
even went as far as to give me a email account with the company and
order business cards saying I was a employee for lightlane networks.

For 2 projects this worked well. he introduced me to a client of his
that he does networking stuff for, in order to be nice I said I would
bill him for this and he can then sell it as his service. I also made
him aware that I expected money upfront for the project. Which he
said he made the company that I was doing this for aware and that he would get
the money from her. During the middle of the project, I reminded him
again, he said he should wait til after the project was over with as no one has time right now to get the money(it was a real quick project and everybody was swamped)
Right after this, he said he billed the company and then called
them up and asked them to pay and he said that they replied saying they would pay
after they recieved the invoice. He claims he sent one in. He
asked me to do a SOW when I had the chance. project got finished and
the customer recieved the product on the website. I then told him I would bill him and then once I recieved the money he would recieve a document back saying that it is his property.I have asked him
repeatedly to give me a straight answer and he has not for the last 2
weeks.I have threatened him saying I would be removing the product from the website within 24 hours.

he now insist that the project was done under his company and that I have no right to remove the product and if I do he will sue.

has anybody encountered this and is it legal for me to remove it?

btw, I am seeing a attorney on friday but I want him to know I am not kidding and will remove it if I dont recieve money before the end of the week.

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  #2  
Old April 26th, 2005, 08:30 PM
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Wait until Friday and see what the attorney has to say. It seems like your "agreement" with this person has several questionable aspects on behalf of all parties, which include your agreement with him, and his agreement with the end client.

Bring all documents (including e-mail) that you have with you regarding these "arrangements". Also, you might want to jot down the gist of any telephone conversations you had with this person and the approximate dates and times they took place. All this will help your attorney.

Finally, listen to what your lawyer advises you to do instead of telling your lawyer what you intend to do.

You've done the right thing in this regard by getting a legal professional to look at your situation. It's what they're there for. My personal opinion is that it could be viewed as sabotage, and the end client may actually have a right to hold you accountable for damages if you act hastily and remove it right now. At the least, the client deserves the courtesy of being informed that his work had been outsourced and should be given time to make arrangements so as not to interrupt business (through the sudden disappearance of a website).

Further, it is my opinion that the damaged party would be the end client and that this person's agreement with her vendor (your employer) trumps your own agreement. That is, if she has paid for the service and the service has been satisfied then she's essentially out of the loop and your dispute is only with the one for whom you agreed to do the work.

It's too sticky for us casual legal scholars. Be patient then ask the pro. Good luck.
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Last edited by medialint : April 26th, 2005 at 08:35 PM.

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  #3  
Old April 26th, 2005, 08:48 PM
help_me_im_lost help_me_im_lost is offline
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now the thing is, I have made it VERY clear to him that the work is mine intil he personally gives me my money and I sign over the contract to him saying the website is his.

he is also in a contract with the client and it is a business to business service. Not a business to consumer service.

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Old April 26th, 2005, 08:50 PM
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You made it clear to him. It's unknown if he made that clear to the client. I stand by my advice: wait until you hear you attorney's advice.

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Old April 26th, 2005, 10:31 PM
help_me_im_lost help_me_im_lost is offline
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now one question is, what laws are covered under this(just so I can look it up on the web), I also believe that he might be violating DMCA as well as state laws regarding the fact that he has stolen so to speak my copyrighted and protected material.

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Old April 26th, 2005, 10:37 PM
help_me_im_lost help_me_im_lost is offline
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he also states that they have NOT paid him which is why he isnt paying me. Which I find the most annoying part of all of this. Me as a business has funds for projects that if I need to outsource it I make sure I can cover it in my budget. This is the sticky part of it. He also has said that even though we have no contract in writing regarding conduct(all we use is project to project SOW's) that I cant even contact his "people" which I know is a crock as there is nothing in writing or otherwise saying I cant do that.

His primary field is IT server and desktop repair. not website development.

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Old April 27th, 2005, 05:47 AM
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As much as you might not want to hear this, it is a lost cause except for any possible recovery via the courts. If you remove the web site you are likely to be held liable for damages (as mentioned several times above), so I join in in suggesting you not be hasty. The moral of this story is get EVERYTHING in writing AND don't continue work until payment has been recieved. Your effort to 'be nice' has come around and slapped you in the face, now you can understand why the average business person is a hard nosed son-of-a-b**** and won't lift a finger until documents are signed and checks have cleared. Based on your story, you are continuing to 'throw good money after bad' by continuing to work with this person, you really ought to learn that fire burns after you get singed the first time.

BTW, signed documents are only useful when you go to court, but they make the case quite clear (unless, of course, they were crappy documents). I doubt any judge will be sympathetic to all this verbal and email (which, btw, is absolutely not admissable in courte) exchange and while you may get a court order to get compensated, all that does is give you the legal right to collect on a debt, you still have to collect. I suspect your lawyer will advise you to attempt to work things out and cease doing work with these people in the future. Besides, unless your work was for a huge amount of money, I suspect any lawyer fees will far outweigh any compensation you can expect to get, though theoretically you can add legal fees to your collection amount.
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Old April 27th, 2005, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by help_me_im_lost
I also believe that he might be violating DMCA as well as state laws regarding the fact that he has stolen so to speak my copyrighted and protected material.


As your lawyer will no doubt explain to you, you did this work for hire which means, it's not your work to copyright. Whether you have been rightly paid for the work is what is at issue. You have the right to be paid for your work. That's the end of it. You do not own this work, it's clearly done for hire.

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Old April 29th, 2005, 07:48 PM
help_me_im_lost help_me_im_lost is offline
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ok after speaking with my attorney there are several things at play here. I could either be concidered a at will employee or a contractor. They said it is about 50/50. If the defence attempts to say I am a contractor than instead of a per hour amount It would be mine(project and all) and they would recieve a 1 use agreement where they could not sell my services as there own dependant on if it is in writing or not.

if they try to say I am a employee then that means that the work is not mine at all and that I would recieve all the money's at a per hourly charge that I have worked on outside of the normal amount(plus overtime) and the employer would be held accountable for claiming income tax.

As it stands more than likely, I would be getting around from the time that I worked on the projects around 55k+, as in the process he also violated some state laws(misdermeanor) it would definantly hurt him(he went thru my email without my permission even though I never signed anything saying he could and for my specific state that is required before he checks any of my communications even after I have left "the company"

Thanks to all who commented.

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