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  #1  
Old February 26th, 2005, 07:51 AM
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Question about Copyright in a Freelance Project

Last year I signed on for a freelance project with my sister's office. They wanted their site to be redesigned. We agreed on a 1/2 now 1/2 on completion contract (written). We also agreed (verbally) that the project wouldd be finished within 3 months because I had other things to do after that. Since I did the job for pennies as a favor for my sister this seemed fair.

7 months later I still had not been given the content they wanted on their site. I had designed 4 templates for them and they finally liked the last one I did, but they were not sending me the images and content I needed. I finally wrote to them and told them that this was not professional and I could no longer work for them since I had other responsibilities. I took my graphics off of their server and told them that I would consider the first 1/2 they paid me for the time spent and if they wanted to buy the graphics off of me they were welcome to.

I went to their site today (8 months later) and I see that they made a tiny shade change to my graphics and design and then made the site live.

Do I have any claim to get payment from them? I put up with hell from them for months and then they used my work and I haven't been paid for it.

I don't want to go through suing them or anything, I just want to scare them into giving me what's due to me.

This was my first freelance project and I have since learned to make a much more detailed contract stating exactly what I expect, but we all learn from our mistakes.

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Old February 28th, 2005, 11:42 AM
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So I guess it's hard for everyone else to figure out too ... oh well.

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Old February 28th, 2005, 07:10 PM
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I would write them a letter or email with a link to the US copyright office and quotes from it that show that they have violated national copyright laws and demand that they cease use of the graphics, etc. immediately or risk being reported.

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Old February 28th, 2005, 09:49 PM
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I don't think there is a whole lot you can do in this situation other than learn from the mistake I'm afraid. Verbal contracts don't amount to much. There are ways to get what's do to you by this method in court, but the costs would not be worth it.
It's frustrating, and I've learned soemthing of the same lesson myself. Customers will always be hard to deal with, you need to make sure you do battle on your terms, not theirs.

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Old March 1st, 2005, 06:54 AM
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Well I do have a written letter from me to them telling them that I would consider the money they paid me for time spent and that if they wanted the graphics they could pay me for them ... I know they didn't agree to it, but it is in writing.

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Old March 1st, 2005, 08:45 AM
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yes but that's coming from you. It wouldn't hold up unless the letter was noterized. There could need to be some kind of correspondence back from them.
My first project I failed to sign the contract beforehand and ended up waiting another 2 years before I was paid. I felt luck at that really. I had jus about given up completly.
I don't know how you have approached these guys, and I don't know how reasonable they are (doesn't sound like they are) but perhaps some finesse will get you what your looking for rather than threatening with legal action that you really can't take.

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Old March 3rd, 2005, 02:26 PM
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I'd let it go and chalk it up to experience. It happens I'm afraid.

Otherwise you could constructively complain, but I don't know how this would reflect back on you:

ie:
####
Create a single topic webpage on a site regarding this issue using the name of the company a few times. Setup the metatags for the googlebot engine. Call it "Deadbeat Clients" or something.

Link this page to the devshed forum, and other places where freelancers are located. googlebot also rates higher with different domains and links I think... Also add it manually to the dmoz.org website, as yahoo and google both use this one.

what will happen is that potential clients for that company will also use yahoo/google and see how unreliable they are with their contracts, as your page will come up in the top 10, and therefore seen. Probably a good idea not to use your normal website, to reduce any negativity to your company name.

This leads to an impression that that company will want to quash without insident ($) which is what you want. You're not doing this without cause, so it's not your opinion. You have resonable proof, so again, it's not your opinion. You can even have before and after photos stating your case easily. State on the website that you're frustrated with them and that you'd be happy to let the issue go if they could show any ethics.

This is so blatant that even they won't/can't go to court. They hopefully would act rather than suffer business.
#####

This is entirely not necessary however, and is really for an extreme case situation. (serious $$$) or if you're the guy who invented the zipper! (we don't know)

Again, I'd just make a note of them, who their competitors are, and recommend their competitors to others when the chance occurs and make sure your future clients are not using their services at all.

In customer service, a good customer will recommend a product/service at least once, a bad customer will complain at least 7 times! So just mention your complaint to others as time goes on and that will be enough revenge I think.

cheers
sf2k

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  #8  
Old March 4th, 2005, 03:43 PM
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In my opinion, if you did the site for a small amount like you said, I would let it go. The problem is, even though you said they are more than welcome to pay you for your graphics, you already *did* collect for the work you did - the first 1/2.

Gran Roguismo brings up a good point. While it's too late for this - do it in the future. Send your documents (notifications, contracts, etc) via registered mail. It costs a few extra cents, but it is worth it when you can hold up a receipt to a judge and say "here is proof that they did get my letter, they willingly accepted my letter, and are responsible for what it contains and STILL went against it." Don't ask them to do stuff optionally. Tell them "pay $x for the images or you can't keep them." Your giving them the option to pay for them, even though you meant it "pay or don't use" can be interpreted "pay if you wish, but it's not required".

Best of luck

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Old March 4th, 2005, 06:37 PM
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You were doing work for hire. When you do work for hire, the copyright belongs to your employer. You have no claim. Your payrate is not part of the equation. End of story as far as copyright.

If you believe there is a breach of contract or you are otherwise owed money then you can litigate for damages and/or what is owed to you. This is totally independent of the copyright issue.
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Last edited by medialint : March 4th, 2005 at 06:42 PM.

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Old March 7th, 2005, 07:49 PM
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To the person who posted just above me, out of curiosity are you a lawyer? And as far as the copyright, if the contract is breached then it is also void (which includes their right to that work. Which also means that by taking the work they are stealing). I am not a lawyer, but law is not black and white. A judge could rule either way.

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Old March 8th, 2005, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delphitus
To the person who posted just above me, out of curiosity are you a lawyer? And as far as the copyright, if the contract is breached then it is also void (which includes their right to that work. Which also means that by taking the work they are stealing). I am not a lawyer, but law is not black and white. A judge could rule either way.


You have some valid points, but with half upfront that would definitely be up to a judge to actually decide. I'm not a lawyer, I just studied a lot of this as it pertains to entertainment law, in particular music publishing.

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Old March 8th, 2005, 05:36 PM
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Thanks all ... I'm just so annoyed with these people because of everything I had to deal with from them that I was hoping I had something to go on ... I figured I was out of luck ... but it was worth a try.

As far as creating a site against them ... it won't matter they're small and probably won't ever have their site redone again.

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