C++ Programmers needed...

For a sci-fi based RTS under production from Sv Studios. We currently only have one programmer but have many 3D Artist. No experience is required but is definatly a plus. Please have extensive knowledge in C Languages, and some basic knowledge in game programming. As of now the game will be freeware, meaning all work will be voluntary. However in later stages of game devolopment there is a likely chance the game will be picked up by a publisher. If not, a game under your wing will look pretty good on a resume.

SERIOUS PROGRAMMERS ONLY

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*Note: To insure your e-mail is not disgarded, please put "Programmer" as topic.

any sample work you might have is welcome.

wrong forum. this should go to "project help wanted".

how does this work: extensive knowledge of C + basic game programming + no experience?

if (1==0) printf("you succeeded.");

and - if you can´t pay, what else do you offer?

Knowledge and Experience are two very different things, you must know how to program but if you have no past experience in the field of game programming its okay.

You will not be paid as of yet , games don't get published until near completion. there is a chance however that the game will not be published, either way to have a Finished Game on your Resume is going to help with job oppurtunities.

A published game under your belt can help on a resume. The only way an unpublished one can help is if you can demo it during an interview.
Also, I hate to dissappoint you, but you won't find a programmer that has extensive knowledge without expierence. One comes from the other. You can find someone who knows the basis of the language, but without pratical experience, they won't have extensive knowledge of it.

If the game does not get published would you release the code under a GPL or similar license? In that case it may still be worth some credit if the game doesnt get picked up.

Also I would have to disagree with the post above.. you can learn to be a competent programmer withough any *practicle* experiance. I have not written anything for a comercial company, but i learned by progrraming dumb little games and apps that never got used for anything. that taught me enough to write other things of a more practical but non-commercial nature. Just because you've never have a paying job doing something does not mean you can not do it. thats flawed logic.

You missunderstand me. As I stated before extensive knowledge does not come without expierence. A paying job doesn't guarantee this. This comes from time behind the keyboard. You can only gain so much from reading a book or sitting in a classroom. There are a lot of people out there that think because they have went through some school or read a couple of books that they know the language, when in reality they only know the structure, but not the use.
Now, writting your own little games and applications will help further your knowledge of a language, but when it comes down to the wire, it won't be you using your game/application and until you have a complete moron crash your application in ways you never though possible, you won't really get some of the more in-depth knowledge of what programming really entails.
Whether this comes from a paying job, or a non-paying job doesn't really matter, it is the ability to write code that is usuable, re-usuable and has a moderate amount of defense against crashing. The latter part doesn't really sound that hard until you really get into doing in. You, yourself can only think of so many ways to pass bad data to your program, but believe me, there is always some way you haven't thought of and it will most likely be found by the most unlikely of individuals.
The base line is knowledge comes from experience.

ok your baseline "knowledge comes from experiance" i would compleatly agree with. Just so long as you are not limiting "experiance" to only job place aplications.

I know what you mean about bullet-proofing software, they will allways find some way to mess things up that you never conceived.

My only point (and maybe you never meant to imply differantly?) was that one can gain plenty of experiance wihtout getting it from a job. I've done a lot of development over the years on dedicated software for specific singular uses by my self or others, as well as gpl'd software of which i get no pay, but plenty of grief if(when) bugs show up.

One does need to work on large projects to gain a deeper understanding of the language(s) and stability issues, but I would say that, that experiance does not need to come from the work place.

No, I believe we are basically on the same sheet of music. It doesn't require a job, it requires work. They are usually linked together, but not always.

I would like to interject with my own little bit of wisdom. I read books and wrote "toy" programs, read examples and looked over tutorials. But believe me, until someone hands you a feature set and a deadline, and tells you do it or you're out, you don't really have any "experience".

Now thats the part i was disagreeing with. deadlines dont make programmers.

sure it makes you think on your feet, maybe forces you to explore areas you were putting off. maybe it even teaches you valuable insight about the busness world.

But it doesnt teach you ANYTHING about programming that you wouldnt learn by taking your time on another large project.

I learned pretty much everything i know from just 'playing' in my spare time. and i've applied that to larger projects with feature lists and yes even a deadline. I learned nothing extra because i was on a timeline.

I realy dont see the connection. and somehow i doubt you do either. My guess is you just posted that to try and get a responce. because thats one of the silliest notions i've heard. And if you realy are an employed programmer you should be smart enough to know that.

Deadlines don't make better programmers, they make sloppy programmers. Take a look at almost any buggy software that has hit the market, most of those were due to the programmer being rushed to complete the project, thus never really getting it completed/debugged/tested on time and having to release numerous service packs/patches for the software.

I didn't say it made you a programmer, much less a better one. What I DID say, is that it provides experience. I don't know about you guys, but in my world, I don't have eternity to complete projects. You can learn all you want by playing with things on your own time, but some day you will be handed a deadline (reasonable or not) and at that point you will need to actually apply what you know. Maybe you learned 8 ways to do this on your own, but you'll need to think critically and say "OK, but only 2 of those are really feasible right now, so we'll totally ditch the other 6". Then, you need to apply your knowledge. I agree that the best way to actually learn is on your own. Learning something brand new to you while you work on it is, in my opinion, a sure way to learn poor technique. However, once you have a reasonable grasp, I think that the experience you gain from working in the real world is what can really round out your grasp of the subject. For me, it's about learning all the basics of something, cementing them with a little "playtime", and then reenforcing them by applying them in a more serious manner with some sort of formal project (work, open source, etc.).

I'll agree with that. Deadlines give you plenty of experience. Especially with unreasonable one, because a lot of people will have to go back and spend a good amount of time fixing what they should have done right in the first place but ran out of time.
I will also agree with critical thinking on your feet. The more experience you get, but better you become at this.
I do believe this is the case in any paying work environment, and some non-paying ones also. But working within decent timeframe and working against a deadline is two different things to me. To me is having your boss come up to you and give you a project to complete @ 8:00 in the morning and wanting it done by 10:00 (which I have had flopped in my lap more than once).
I truely haven't seen many deadlines that are reasonable, and most of the time you give me a project and want it done under an estimated timeframe that I give, I will almost always finish it early.

I think that sometimes the reason we don't see deadlines as reasonable is because we can see what's still wrong right from the guts of the program. We look and say "Man, that's not good", but everyone else thinks it's no big deal. However, I have been handed unreasonable deadlines for jobs, and I have cranked out garbage because of it. I have also, however, gotten a little bit better at quickly sorting my options for a project when I don't have enough time to try them all. Fortunately, my latest project really has no set in stone deadline (although it is informally expected around the end of this month). Because of that, I have re-written a maintenance program that goes with it three times now to try and make it easier to use and to enhance the stability. However, that's mainly because I took some risks I wouldn't have had I not had so much time to try things out.

You people have waaayyy tooo much time