Mobile Rack causes HDD Read Problems?

Hey guys, what's up?

My problem is very simple to explain. I bought a IDE Mobile Rack, and a Maxtor 160GB 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD, and when I plug the HDD up inside of the mobile rack, with the mobile rack connected inside my computer, everything works fine until I try to read data from that Hot Swap in Windows XP Pro. It seems to write fine, I haven't seen any problems with it yet. But when I try to read from it, the WHOLE operating system freezes, no errors, CTRL + ALT + DEL doesn't work, I have to forcefully shut down the computer to even escape from the issue.

This read problem is very frequent. Now, I have plugged the HDD up directly internally, without the mobile rack, and it works excellently. I don't understand what is wrong. I have correctly set all of my hardware jumpers (for primary/slave config), so this is definitely not faulty hardware configuration. I built this system myself, and I know how reliable it is.

My guess for the cause of the problem was bandwidth problems. The HDD is ATA133, and I think the Mobile Rack was advertised as 100/66/33, which to me I thought meant 100/133/166, I never noticed I was wrong till I already had the items delivered.

I bougth these Items on Newegg.com, and I will paste below the descriptions of the items:

HD 160GB|MAXTOR 6Y160P0 72R 8MB% (Qty=1,Price=132.00)
MOBILERACK IDE KF-21-IPF-B BLACK (Qty=1,Price=22.99)


Using this information, I hope someone can help me conclude this issue. I thank anyone for their time.


PS: Here is a site where you can view the stats on the mobile rack. Please keep in mind, this is not the place I bought it. I bought it on newegg.com:
http://www.computerhq.com/hardware/...o-id-26889.html

PSS: Sorry, I also want to mention that the HDD inside of the mobile rack (the Maxtor 160GB) was set to Slave, and the Primary (Internal Maxtor 120GB) was set to Master.

assuming everything is connected correctly, the correct cables for ultra ata 100/133 drives were used. did the maxtor drive come with a cd, and did you use it to install the system agent? it will ask to update several files, like aspi and a few others. if this is installed, or you do this and the problem still occurs, next steps would be, if you have a via chipset reapply the 4in1 driver(update if availible). intel reapply the application accelerator. sis, nvidia, ali,...... same thing, reapply the controller software drivers. if none of this is doing any good, check for a bios update that addresses hd read issues. i know a maxtor drive ultra 133 is backwards compatible, will work on a ultra 33/66 controller just fine, so this would not be the issue.
(edit) also, what is the size of the power supply you have and could this be a voltage problem from to many devices?

okay that was a bit hard to understand because the sentences were not structured well, but I'll try to understand as much of it as I can lol

First of all, the Maxtor came with NO cd. My operating system automatically installed the correct drivers for my model of HDD. and what the heck is a system agent?

Secondly, what does the chipset have to do with this? My chipset (nvidia) is fine, there's nothing wrong with it. Emphasize a bit more on what you're talking about. 4 in 1 drivers? application accelerator? Explain more thoroughly please.

My IDE cables are 133, and they are not the problem. My power supply is 400 watts.

I hope you can further assist me. I thank you for your reply.

http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/downloads/index.htm
download the diagnostic utility for your drive.
see if this finds any problems with your drive.
the system agaent is a third party program which installs needed files for your drive.
after the program is installed you can disable it's startup after you check the program to see if it has detected errors.

First of all, the hard drive works fine. It NEVER freezes when I plug it up without the Mobile Rack, yet it only has the read problems inside of the Mobile Rack.

Secondly, the diagnostic program doesn't work. When you have to press F8 in dos to continue, it keeps taking me back to the command prompt. It's absolutely useless.

Thanks though, I was just hoping for more indepth solutions.

I think you are correct DoomMaster. The IDE cage is ATA100 at best, and the ATA133 drive is not doing well downstepping. A basic compatibility issue, proven by the drive's performance outside the IDE cage.

The only other possibility would be a faulty IDE cage interface. Those items are like $15 or so aren't they? You could replace it to see if such is the case. Or, shop for one that specifically supports ATA133.

I know of no other settings on the cage that would account for what you are seeing. Good luck.

Hi MrDoomMaster,

I have the same problem (not only read errors, but also computer hangs and even HDD logical mismatch after that - sometimes needs reformatting) with any IDE mobile racks (yes, "those items are like $15 or so...") on various computers and various OSs after some time of using the mobile rack - even when I bought ATA133 mobile racks with 80 conductor cable inside and red 40 pin connector. When I put the HDD directly, everything is OK (if the HDD is not logically mismatched already).
In one case I even had to change two HDDs due to hardware failure caused by using it within the mobile rack until I discovered that the mobile rack was the cause.

When only "slower" HDDs were used, the problems with mobile racks weren't so frequent, or the lifetime of single rack was longer (even several years).

Now with ATA100/133 HDDs and respective computers the lifespan of the rack is sometimes only months, weeks and sometimes the rack doesn't work correctly from the beginning.

I think it must be something with the high data transfer speed and some signal distortion on 4 connector couplings between HDD and MB. Maybe some invisible oxidation on all the contacts between the HDD and MB can cause that, I don't know.

The problem is that I MUST AND WANT TO use HDDs in racks, for example when I want to use RAID.

Do you someone know the reliable IDE HDD racks for 24/365 nonstop operation of ATA100/133 disks? It is not necessary to be as cheap as "those items like $15 or so..."

Thanks,

Pilotek.

(^^;?(There's no reason why writing only works fine if you ascribe the cause to transfer speed.)

If it works when connected directly, surely the cause should be ascribed to the rack. I think some cable connection is broken, so that, for example, if CPU command read-out, though it was sent to HD controller correctly without errors, but no response is made, the controller trying to response in vain due to wrong connection, in such a case, system is supposed to wait for the response forever like a never coming sweetheart.

Buy a Tester which costs 10$ or so? to detect it. It worths the cost in any way. IDE pin assignments is somewhere on the web. Any removal racks are often just connectors and should have not so comlex structures. You maybe can make it yourself or fix any cheaper junks. However, you'd better complain of it to the vendor.

I'm not sure if megumi amatuka responds to MrDoomMaster or even to me, but: yes, megumi amatuka, I think you are true. There's no reason to have only read problems. I have read/write and even HDD recognize problems with HDDs inside the (longer used) racks.

I'm sure that the problem are only the racks. The HDDs work fine when connected directly.

But no cable/connector tray connection is broken (checked only by pen "beep" ohmmeter from rack connector pins to the drawer-to-HDD cable connector pins). Therefore the problems are not deterministic. Sometimes the HDD in the rack works fine, sometimes fails. The older the rack is, the more often it fails. Doesn't matter how often the drawer was plugged in/ejected.
When I talked about transfer speed I meant that HDDs connected in the rack have two additional connectors (total of four) on the way from HDD to MB against directly connected HDDs (only two connectors) and the oxidation (or some other wear?) can be the problem with today's high data transfer speeds of UDMA100/133 HDDs. Some reflexes/distortions of the signals on higher resististive (due to oxidation?) connections or so? But there are some small PCBs inside the trays with some electronic components. Maybe they slightly change their parameters during the time?

I suppose that when MrDoomMaster complains the tray and brings another one, it could work fine, but not for a long time.

Pilotek

(^^;?(Pilotek, your or for all's problem is more advanced and would go beyond my knowledge.)

I think the said PCB function is for the adjustment of cable length limit of ATA about 40-80 cm or so. This again may cause the trouble instead. According to the high speedization, ATA cable was changed into 80 pins, then the additional 40 pins are all assigned to the purpose of GND ground to stabilize the noise from the external.

On ther other hand, we need not care about noises about low-speed HDD usually, but as to high-speed one, even termination idea is revived as in SCSI. Sometimes works, sometimes fails. such an unstable phenomena must have connection with noise, I suppose.

If I remember right, 34th pin is used to detect the difference of cable to use, even if this signal only is distorted via the mobile connection or noise, wrong working will be expected.

Be that as it may, as for your requirements, I cannot but recommend SCSI. It will be somewhat expensive, but I think it would be economical in the end, long run and serious power use.