#1
  1. Person everyone wants to hate.
    Devshed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    211
    Rep Power
    28

    2 USB hubs prevent POST/Boot-up


    First..

    Toshiba x205 (laptop)
    Windows 7 Pro 64-bit SP1

    I dont recall having this problem on Vista, and dont have it on XP on another computer, however at least for as long as ive had SP 1 on 7, My computer wont even POST, let alone boot up if i have my Xbox 360 (wired) controller plugged in. Ive tried searching, found someone whos had issue with the Wireless controller, but that person at least can get to a windows splash screen. I cant even get that far.

    Ive tried changing the Legacy USB option in the BIOS with no effect. Anyone have any ideas?

    On another (somewhat similar) note, I can use the keyboard on my laptop no problem, however during post, even with Legacy USB enabled, the external keyboard will not work until windows kicks in. This isnt nearly as big a deal as the 360 controller issue, but just thought id throw it out there.

    (by the way, is there anyway to change the shown title? i tried just editing, but it only changes the posted title within the thread, and not the thread title itself)
    Last edited by Lyian; June 28th, 2011 at 09:45 PM. Reason: Problem narrowed down
  2. #2
  3. Automagically Delicious
    Devshed Regular (2000 - 2499 posts)

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    127.0.0.2 - I live next door.
    Posts
    2,200
    Rep Power
    2737
    It might be a power issue...? Can you get it to repeat with other USB devices attached? If you can't even get POST to come up then it will have NOTHING to do with the OS itself. It will all be hardware or BIOS related.

    What about if you take the battery out and go completely of AC power? Does that change anything? Can you more easily repeat the issue with other devices?
    Adam TT
  4. #3
  5. Wiser? Not exactly.
    Devshed God 1st Plane (5500 - 5999 posts)

    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Bonita Springs, FL
    Posts
    5,932
    Rep Power
    4033
    Both my computers fail to POST if I have my phone plugged in. My older desktop failed to POST if I had my card reader plugged in as well.

    My headphones don't seem to prevent the POST though. Seems to be something to do with certain devices. Perhaps devices that try and draw a lot of power over usb?

    I never did bother to try and figure out the cause. I just unplug them, let it POST and plug them back in.
    Recycle your old CD's, don't just trash them



    If I helped you out, show some love with some reputation, or tip with Bitcoins to 1N645HfYf63UbcvxajLKiSKpYHAq2Zxud
  6. #4
  7. Person everyone wants to hate.
    Devshed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    211
    Rep Power
    28
    Originally Posted by AdamPI
    It might be a power issue...? Can you get it to repeat with other USB devices attached? If you can't even get POST to come up then it will have NOTHING to do with the OS itself. It will all be hardware or BIOS related.

    What about if you take the battery out and go completely of AC power? Does that change anything? Can you more easily repeat the issue with other devices?
    ok.. i just did more extensive troubleshooting. Heres mysetup..


    Xbox 360 wired controller. (plugged directly into machine)
    #1 4-port USB 2.0 hub {Self Powered} (plugged directly into machine)
    Logitech G110 Keyboard (plugged into Hub-1)
    Logitech G5 Mouse (plugged into Hub-1)
    #2 4-port USB 2.0 hub (plugged into Hub-1)

    Now hub 2 came with my computer cart, built in. The hub itself works, as ive tested it with the 360 controller and a number of USB thumb drives.

    I tried it with hub-1 unplugged (along with everything plugged into it) and the controller plugged in, it booted. I then started eliminating devices from hub-1, starting with Hub-2. So everything except hub-2 is plugged in. It booted. Not sure why i didn't notice this before (but it explains why it worked until SP1, cause i didn't have this desk, or hub-2 until around the time SP1 released)

    So I guess the built in desk-hub is the culprit, but this is odd because the hub WORKS, but for some reason, when it, And the 360 controller are plugged in, it doesn't work. Ive tried plugging hub-2 in Directly to the computer, with the controller plugged in.. still doesn't work. So not sure what is up, or why they dont get along, but at least i have an answer.

    Anyone have any clues why they dont play nice?

    [edit] ok did another test. It seams its not hub-2 itself, but having Both hub's plugged in creates the problem. I just tried hub-2 and the controller by themselves, and it worked. This is even more confusing.
    Last edited by Lyian; June 28th, 2011 at 02:52 PM.
  8. #5
  9. No Profile Picture
    Lost in code
    Devshed Supreme Being (6500+ posts)

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    8,317
    Rep Power
    7170
    I have some USB devices that prevent my system from POSTing as well. I just unplug them whenever I'm booting. That's probably your best bet.
    PHP FAQ

    Originally Posted by Spad
    Ah USB, the only rectangular connector where you have to make 3 attempts before you get it the right way around
  10. #6
  11. Person everyone wants to hate.
    Devshed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    211
    Rep Power
    28
    Originally Posted by E-Oreo
    I have some USB devices that prevent my system from POSTing as well. I just unplug them whenever I'm booting. That's probably your best bet.
    yea, i guess im just not going to have the desk USB hub. I got the self powered one mainly so i would only have to un/plug in 1 thing when i take the laptop with me or leave instead of 2 or 3 things. The controller i generally take with me anyway otherwise i would plug it into the hub too.

    The desk hub was nice tho to put temp stuff in, like my phone or thumb drives. *shrug* Id still like to find out Why both hubs being plugged in is an issue..
  12. #7
  13. Automagically Delicious
    Devshed Regular (2000 - 2499 posts)

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    127.0.0.2 - I live next door.
    Posts
    2,200
    Rep Power
    2737
    I wonder if there's a BIOS setting you can do to limit the power consumption for USB ports on power on.
    Last edited by AdamPI; June 29th, 2011 at 09:39 AM.
    Adam TT
  14. #8
  15. Wiser? Not exactly.
    Devshed God 1st Plane (5500 - 5999 posts)

    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Bonita Springs, FL
    Posts
    5,932
    Rep Power
    4033
    I messed around with my laptop and phone a bit. Disabled the quite POST so I could see what was going on. Seems when the phone was plugged in it stalled to boot looking for USB Mass storage devices. Disabling 'removeable devices' from the boot menu didn't seem to change anything.

    Laptop did boot eventually, having the phone plugged in just seemed to stall the process for about 30 seconds while it detected devices.
    Recycle your old CD's, don't just trash them



    If I helped you out, show some love with some reputation, or tip with Bitcoins to 1N645HfYf63UbcvxajLKiSKpYHAq2Zxud
  16. #9
  17. Person everyone wants to hate.
    Devshed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    211
    Rep Power
    28
    Originally Posted by AdamPI
    I wonder if there's a BIOS setting you can do to limit the power consumption for USB ports on power on.
    no setting that i could find, even if there were though, with one of the hubs being self powered, you'd think that wouldn't really be an issue :|
  18. #10
  19. Automagically Delicious
    Devshed Regular (2000 - 2499 posts)

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    127.0.0.2 - I live next door.
    Posts
    2,200
    Rep Power
    2737
    You wouldn't think so, but I'd be willing to bet that the first thing the PC might try to do is send voltage over the line. Since the hub has an external power source it probably doesn't complete the circuit or has such a high resistance that the PC can't or wont proceed.
    Adam TT
  20. #11
  21. Person everyone wants to hate.
    Devshed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    211
    Rep Power
    28
    Originally Posted by AdamPI
    You wouldn't think so, but I'd be willing to bet that the first thing the PC might try to do is send voltage over the line. Since the hub has an external power source it probably doesn't complete the circuit or has such a high resistance that the PC can't or wont proceed.
    yea but it works by itself, the only time the computer wont boot is when both the hubs are plugged in.. Either one by themselves work fine.
  22. #12
  23. Automagically Delicious
    Devshed Regular (2000 - 2499 posts)

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    127.0.0.2 - I live next door.
    Posts
    2,200
    Rep Power
    2737
    right, that's what I'm saying. When they are plugged in the PC will send voltage out the USB ports (all of them) to detect if a device is present. If for some reason it's short-circuiting the motherboard so that cannot boot that would explain a lot. There are various other things besides a short circuit e.g. too much resistance. It would create somewhat of a feedback loop on the motherboard. Without that device plugged in and modifying the port, the PC detects no device (no load on the USB port) and boots normally.
    Adam TT

IMN logo majestic logo threadwatch logo seochat tools logo