Are tables still usefull for displaying information?

Is it still OK for using tables to display information, and just leave the site layout to css?

In the "new" age of web development, tables are generally considered bulky, outdated constructions. However, the answer is more complex than that; It depends upon your CSS comfort level, and your audience.

Older browsers may not display CSS properties or worse, do so incorrectly, rendering your page as a confused, illegible mass. While you should always try to design your pages so they degrade gracefully, it is harder than it seems due to the many quirks in browser variants.

If you are comfortable with CSS, I advise using tableless layout, viewing the html without the styles to see how it degrades, but don't spend frustrated hours trying to get layout 'just right' .

If you are more comfortable using tables, do so. You can always adapt the pages later once you have a more firm grip of positioning with CSS.

well its not only that, but for a few of my pages. they are designed depending on the information in the database, so its much easier (from my pov) for setting out each bit then pulling it all together at the end.
also i've only just started on CSS so not quite got it working. I've even come into the footer problem

You can make generic templates with css that will apply to any situation where you might use tables. CSS can do anything tables can do-it just sometimes takes playtime [*cough* excuse me, 'development time'] to figure it out.

There are many generic templates out there (just google 'css tableless layout'); I've created templates consisting of simple divs with colored borders which I can then adapt to specific layouts.

As for the footer problem....I've solved that many times by pretending it didn't exist.

ive been given some code that is better than my original, but because i didnt write it, i cant understand it, so im trying to merge it into my own to get mine working, so far the footer works for when the page is longer than window, but if its shorter it stops at the end of the content.
(the code i was given does go to the bottom of the window, im just finding out what ive missed)
hopefully if i get it set up, i can ignore it

Welcome to the wonderful world of web development.
That is how many of us learned. Good luck to you.

Tables are wonderful for displaying data that are best seen in row by row, column by column. Examples are schedules, membership lists, sports statistics, catalog entries, etc. Tables have semantic meaning when they contain tabular data. It says,"This is a table of records with one or more fields per record." As layout vehicles for unrelated data they are without meaning. In any case, CSS should be used for layout.

NotGoddess is right on one point; if you grew up using table layouts, css can disturb your comfort zone. CSS requires a different way of thinking.

I disagree in re older browsers. With css, we can go way back to the days when html was used purely as a structural markup language. Without having to code display info into the html, we write a well structured, semantically correct document—one that any browser can render as a sensible page. Once the html is right we can create the display rules, all without messing up the html. Browsers that don't know css are few and far between, but it doesn't matter because we're back to writing good html.

As to browser variants, most modern browsers, Moz/Gecko, Opera, Safari, etc. are pretty good where the standards are concerned. The major trouble maker is IE, which has entirely too many bugs and outright mis-renderings. Even IE's too many glitches are generally well known and work-arounds are available that don't mess up the well behaved browsers.

cheers,

gary

merge successful, the part i missed was forgetting to set a height for the container divisions, as spoken on various websites, footers are usually only possible when placed inside a division which is below all the other layout.
thanks alot for that kk5st!
ill take another quick look through the code see if i can shorten mine a bit more.

for things like news posts and messageboard, i will be changing to css for the layout, but for the tabular data, ie:
http://wiganyac.hellrazer.net/index...at+1st+May+2004
im going to leave it to the tables.

ive tried using one of the validations on w3.org except i get errors since navigation hyperlinks on the page have the php session id appended to them.
if they are the only error, should i just igonore them?

bah darnit.
just taken a look at my site in IE, looks pretty screwed, looks like ill have to use the original code by kk5st anyway

I told you not to mess with the basic code.

The footer thing is pretty sensitive to change. Here are the keys;

• The container is an AP element. Min-height is 100% which IE flubs, so height is set to 100%, knowing another IE bug will cause it to expand with content. The child selector (which IE doesn't understand) is used to return the height to its default, auto, for modern browsers.
  • Main is the first of two nested sub-containers. This is positioned relative so it's in the flow and can contain positioned elements. Put all your content in here, eg.
    • banner
    • left column
    • right column
    • whatever
  • Then the footer, an AP element placed at the bottom of the container, with its content.

Look again at the source. I think you'll get the idea.

cheers,

gary