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    Moving from tables to CSS


    Anyone out there only using CSS positioning for all their web development? I was thinking of redesigning some stuff and was going to try and go for a table-less layout, but wasn't sure how practical it would be.

    With all the browser quirks and compatibility issues is anyone using straight CSS for sites that involve intricate layouts and still want to support a wide audience of users?

    I've seen many CSS proponents that do a very good job on the browsers I use (like CSS Zen Garden on Firebird and IE 6 ) but I'm wondering how these sites look on older browsers that many people still use.

    Like many compromises that have to be made in technology, it seems I'm caught between what I should be doing (CSS) and what I need to do (tables or CSS/table combination).

    Thoughts?
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    from what i understand css layout instead of tables is much too time-consuming and annoying. CSS 3 should be finalized soon, but implemented much later. There's supposed to be some good layout stuff goin on there.
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    I disagree with dr.mr.santa, CSS is IMHO much easier - by design. But here comes my story:

    I switched from tables to CSS only recently. But I am already regretting it:

    IE6 (which is still the most common browser out there, and if this wasn't sad enough, even the out-of-the box version without any patches) is really buggy when it comes to alignment, padding, margins et al. And afaics it still does not support all of CSS lv. 2.
    All css and html is checked against w3c validators, Mozilla renders my pages just fine. But IE insists on ignoring the padding on certain tags, the margin on others, padding when combined with float, inherited attributes on nested tags, and so on...

    It's a new learning process for me now. I know how to make table-based pages that do work with all browsers from NN4 to NN7, IE4 to IE6. But now I am re-starting from scratch...
    I wish we could just hire somebody to figure out all these problems so I can concentrate on the server side scripting, but... oh well, ...

    M.
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    i defer to your experience
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    Exactly what I was going through in the prelim stages of what I'm doing M. I had some nice progress in the first day or so with some general table setups and then working with different column spans and row spans started to irk me. Doing more research on the web would come up with pages more on how to work around browser bugs than the correct way of doing things. As for right now, I guess I'll be going back to backwards compatibility and using the tables/CSS combo rather than working around proprietary idiosyncrasies of each browser so that I can adhere to the "standard" of CSS.

    One day, maybe but definitely not today.

    Going to xhtml from html isn't a big deal because it is just more structured, isn't completely different, and doesn't require much more work, but even then I don't see browsers enforcing it any time soon which makes it harder for newer people getting into web dev to pick up the correct habits which just perpetuates this system.

    -b
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    its only css for me,

    makes the html-code so much more structual, easier to maintain.
    and when doing changes on the layout i don't necessarily have to edit the html.

    when you are beging with css it is much easier if you use a doctype that triggers the Standards compliance mode in the browsers.
    http://www.hut.fi/~hsivonen/doctype.html
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    Akh, do you use only CSS even for your commercial projects? How do you maintain cross browser compatibility (moreso, how do you keep up with supporting older browsers)?
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    as i said css all the way.

    i usually goes for simplicity, often the best way to ensure browser compabitly.

    and it is often the easiest to use the most standar compliant to check the coding under way, then make tweaks for the lesser compliant.
    so when i code i check in moz/opera/konq.
    then later on ie. where i usually have to make some tweaks.

    i aslo check the page in netscap4.7 to see if they work, granted the pages might not look as fancy in netscape4.7 as the more upto date ones, but they are accessible and thats the most important.
    and it is always smart to check the site in links/lynx, the best way to check the accessibility and to see if the site is logical built up.


    sure css can seems like a hassel in the begining, but when you get used to how the browsers handles it.
    it goes pretty fast to setup an layout.

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