August 15th, 2002, 01:53 PM
industry standard database???
so what is the standard database program to create the core database for a db-driven site? MS Access? that would make sense to me being its the only db-creation program ive ever seen/used. are there others? does anyone use anything other than Access?
August 15th, 2002, 02:05 PM
On the free/open side, MySQL seems to be very popular in combinatin with php. This is the combination offered by most unix hosting providers.
On the other end of the scale, Oracle seems to be the most popular database by market share.
Don't use Access. It's designed as an office/client application, not a server. If you feel the need to use a Microsoft product, MS-SQL Server is their database server product.
August 15th, 2002, 02:13 PM
i dont think i understand the database/server thing. i have worked with Access as a database, but what do you mean when you refer to MySQL. is MySQL a program where you can creat tables just like in Access? i understand that it is a database server program but im just not sure where you would store the data...if you could, explain it as if you were talking to a moron thanks...
August 15th, 2002, 03:47 PM
A DBMS (Database Management System) is kind of like a librarian. You give it all your data, categorize it, define what it is and how different parts relate to each other, then the DBMS takes it from there.
The DBMS will manage who has access to the information, the best way to store the information to get it at it easily. Make sure no one else can mess with the data without the DBMS's permission, stuff like that.
Access has a DBMS, it also has a front-end. That's the part you're used to seeing, with the tables and the forms and stuff like that. The reason Access isn't a server, though, is because it's only designed for one person to use it at a time. You wouldn't have six people sitting at your desk all trying to use the mouse and keyboard to use the same Access database.
A server, on the other hand, is designed so MANY people can be accessing data, updating records, adding information, etc.., all without getting in eachother's way or corrupting eachother's data. AND, the system will still perform at an acceptable speed.
Now a server, like MySQL or Oracle, doesn't come with a bundled front-end. This wouldn't make sense, since you rarely want to be sitting at your server in order to make changes in a production environment. The servers have front-ends, though, they just run seperately (on different computers, even), and connect to the server through a network.
Now, you can use Access like a server, through ODBC, and if you've only got a few people trying to get at the same database it shouldn't be a problem. But Access was never designed for that, it isn't fast enough, sturdy enough, or feature rich enough to be a server. If it was, Microsoft wouldn't need a database server product, right?
Now, if you're used to using Access, you have some of the basic principles. MySQL comes with a command line client where you can type SQL commands. Access uses SQL too, it just writes it for you. You can look at the SQL for a query in Access if you want. There are GUI clients for MySQL, though, that look very much like Access.
Oracle is the same way. It has a command-line client and a GUI client.
August 15th, 2002, 04:03 PM
bricker i want to thank you for your time. i really appreciate it...
so with MySQL you use a command line method to add records to your database? if so wouldnt that be a much more primitive method. i understand that it does have some GUI's as well and that seems like it will help. do you know of a good way to start leaning these technologies? im currently thinking of putting together my own personal web server to start experimenting. what do you recommend? i was planning on running Windows 2000 or 98 with Personal Web Server, MySQL, and PHP. any thing else i should/shouldnt run?
also, do you recommend that i just work with MySQL to start learning it? experiment?
again, thank you bricker...
August 15th, 2002, 04:24 PM
Ahhhh with windows 2000, you can download Apache from www.apache.org and download PHP from www.php.net as well as MySQL from www.mysql.com
Install Apache, then PHP. You'll have to edit a http.conf file in apache to get PHP to work with it. It's well explained in the PHP manual or you can search it here. Next install MySQL
Once all that is done, download phpmyadmin from www.phpmyadmin.net place it in your htdocs directory (Apache), edit the config file and start her up
MySQL is a very powerfull database and you can do some amazing things with this system. But it isn't a point and click type of thing by default. There are some GUIs you can download for Win32 systems but I've never tried any. I really like phpmyadmin which seems to be the standard now...
You can also find starter kits for apache and PHP with an easy installer. Or Xitami has a nice easy server and the PHP install file will update Xitami's settings automagically.
August 15th, 2002, 04:28 PM
i was wondering about apache. that seems like a good set-up (apache, PHP, MySQL). i was wondering if i should use Apache over PWS. With apache can i use ASP? ive also been tinkering with ASP and i would like to continue my experiments with it.
August 15th, 2002, 04:43 PM
There are some links here to packages that install apache/php/mysql all in one bundle. Should make it much easier for you.
I've never used PWS, but it's similar deal to Access. It's like IIS-lite, so if you want to learn on it no problem, but don't expect to actually be able to run a real, public website off of it.
As for ASP, there are some commercial products you can buy that will let Apache run it. I don't know of any free products, but I haven't looked in awhile, so there might be now.
Unless you have previous experience with VB, I'd recommend going with php. It's not limited to Microsoft hardware, in my opinion easier to use, and you can get lots of help at the forums here Also, php interfaces very well with MySQL and Apache.
August 15th, 2002, 04:55 PM
well i think you guys have planned my night out for me....
clean install of Windows 2000 and install of PHP/Apache/MySQL
thanks alot you guys, im sure youll be answering my installation questions tomorrow.....