Page 3 - America: Kiss Your Rights Goodbye

You're right, I'm wrong. You're smart, I'm stupid. I now see the error of my ways. Thanks for enlightening me.

This is why I hate politics - all it does is conjure up unwanted hate. "America craps up this, America craps up that" is all I hear from TechNoFear. And to a point, that is true. But, hell, we didn't get here by the hand of God. So, in theory, other countries can do the same. Geez, you wouldn't even need to use war. Wait....
I already know the next comments...

"Other countries would never be become like the U.S., because the U.S. will suppress them."

And this final statement would lead me to my point: In this world, there are too many people of talk, and not enough of action. (And usually the one's of action are crazy a la Hitler) In other words, people bitch about stuff, and never do anything about them. I hate to say it, but billionaires of today and of the past got there because they worked hard (albeit ruthlessly and cutthroat), and didn't sit around and say how much they hate people.

The only way to change the world is through action. And I'm not talking about nukes, bombs, or guns. I'm saying - stand up for your beliefs, work hard, and find a way to improve yourself and your surroundings. If you think my entire post up till not is crap, then at least take this advice: Hate advocated nothing. Hating people gets your no where. You'll have nothing but enemies beating you down.

We're all glad you've seen the error of your ways you ignorant, tyrannical, butchering American pig Oh wait.. I guess that means me too.

Sometimes I have to wonder what would happen if all the whiny people in the world like Tech devoted 10% of the energy they use blaming everyone else for their problems on bettering their own situations what would happen. Of course, I'm thinking that Australia must be a real hellhole... y'know, those poor Australians are living like Rwandans because of the Evil Empire that is America (those Fosters beer commercials are all just a plot by Big Brother to make us THINK the Australians have decent lives). Why is it that when I'm being whiny and start a thread bashing dubya and his jack-booted thugs I wind up defending the U.S. instead of whining about it?

MMMMMMMMMMM, Homer Likes Butchered Pigs, DOH!!!!

Exactly. Ausies are worse off then chinese people - I mean at least chinese got water to seed rice and in poor australia is drought. Russia is better too, at least it's not hot in there - 20 billion poor australians suffer from heatstroke every day. And iraq is better too, they are always on tv and all, where's australia is trying its best to make headlines by banning muslim clothing, but that doesn't work. Afghan is doing great comparing to aus too - they are getting help from the states. And it's all america's fault - and it all goes back 500 years ago. I mean if columbus or whoever was it didn't discover the country, british poeple would've and now they wouldn't have to suffer in this ****pit. It's always the states to be blaimed....it's always the states.... well, states and microsoft.... its always the states and microsoft...

There's an old saying: "NEVER try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig."

Ctb tried to warn me, but being headstrong, I just wouldn't listen. As you can tell from my last post, sometimes you just have to admit defeat and move on.

Arguing with a fanatic is tedious. They have no sense of humor about the topic. Their side is all good, your side is all bad. They either paint with really big brushstrokes or fixate on minutiae depending on what best suits their purpose. The people they are defending engage in the same kind of activity as your group, but because your group was more successful, they're to be viewed as victims (search Google for +Australia +tariff and you get ~172,000 hits).

My neighbors just got back from living in Australia for a few years. They really liked it (they named their daughter Sydney). But they never acted like Australians were the paragons of the universe. More like they were people with good points and faults like everyone else.

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

---John Holmes...

LOL

I like it...a lot.

I think we've all learned a valuable lesson here today:

Who can say I'm wasting my time online when I learn valuable wisdom like this!

I forgot the world is perfect.
I never said Australia was perfect but then we can take some criticism. Go ahead I will be the first to help. Why is it Americans can't?

No governements allow corporations or special interest groups to 'socailise costs'.
No one tries to blow each other up and those that do have no real reason to do so. They are just an isolated case and you have manged to stop them, have't you?
No one is starving while others are rich.
No US vice president (or his private company) is being sued by the US government.
No Australian politican can't work out how to open a toilet door after he has finished.

The whole world is just peachy.

Excuse me for caring for those in other countries that are at the pointy end of these protectionist measures.

Facts about US taxes on imported goods (8,753 of them to be specific)

"Restrictions on imports of foreign automobiles are purported to have saved 22,000 auto workers' jobs but the higher auto prices these restrictions produced cut demand by one million cars per year and resulted in 54,000 layoffs. "

"Mothers who buy imported infant formula must pay 17.2 percent more, but those who can afford it buy lobster duty free. "

"The United States has 193,000 fishermen, but only 1,000 people employed in manufacturing fishnets.
Yet a 17 percent tariff on fishnets subsidizes the 1,000 people who make them while raising the costs for the 193,000 fishermen who use them to compete every day with foreign rivals. "

"A 1984 Federal Trade Commission study estimated that tariffs cost the American economy $81.00 for every $1.00 saved"

"Cheap brandy - valued at less than $2.38 a liter - is tariffed at 41.9 percent, brandy valued between $2.38 and $3.43 a liter is tariffed at 9.6 percent, and the highest quality brandy is tariffed at just 1.2 percent"

"The tariff on a special wool blend fabric used to make firefighters' protective garments is 33 percent. When Rep. Robert Roe (D-NJ) proposed in 1988 to reduce this tariff, the American Textile Manufacturers Institute (ATMI) objected. Even though American companies did not produce the fabric, ATMI thought some might do so if the tariff were kept high. "

"The quota for Edam and Gouda is allocated primarily between the European Community (EC), Argentina and Sweden, and 182 nations may sell the US only two pounds total.
Most of the quota for blue-mold cheese is allocated between the EC and Argentina, but the rest of humanity may sell the US only one kilogram. "

Ok, so you think the states rip people off. But australia rips them off in slightly different way - direct income tax. Australia has one of the highest taxes for income in the world, and one of the lowest thresholds - iirc after $50k they start taking half of you cash. Another itneresting fact is that it's acutally cheaper to buy luxury car overseas and import in then try to buy it localy.

/me looks where to hide from upcoming flames

TechNoFear, what steps should America do to be a "better" country? Keeping in mind the way our country is, are these suggestions feasible?

Also, is there (in your opinion) a fairly major country in the world who is doing a better job than us socially, financially, politically that we should emulate? The reason I say "major" is that it would be hard for the US to act like some idyllic, pastoral nation the size of a postage stamp. What other nation should I be looking at and saying "We should really try to act more like those guys".

We know you think we're doing a lot of stuff wrong. Without burying us in details, what should we be doing?

>>what steps should America do to be a "better" country? Keeping in mind the way our country is, are these suggestions feasible?


I whis I has the easy answers. I don't. I know it will cause some pain to us but if it will stops one person joining a radical / terrorist group and blowing tourists up then it would be worth it.
Half the problem is getting people to realise there is a problem and that they can do sometihing about it. Look at what activism did with 'etoys'.

Currently our countries do what is in only OUR best interests NOW. We do not think of the big picture or the future (what is best for the world).

Big step for the US at present. Limit campaign funds and require full disclosure. The only chance is to stop business 'buying' favour.

Second is to stop selling or suppling other countries with arms. Stop supplying Israel with US$billions of aid, 49% of which is arms.

The perception has been created that there is one rule for the US and another for the rest of the world.
The US can't arrest a person from Australia, while they are in Pakistan and hold them in Cuba for ten months (and counting) without legal recorse, charge, extradition from Pakistan, hope or family vists. (While the US citizen has already been tried and sentanced.) Look at the fuss the US (rightly) made over 'lost POWS' in Vietnam.

GWB can't attack Sadam over his use of chemical weapons when his dad sold them to Iraq and did not stop selling them to Iraq for two years after they were used.

Johnnie Howard's Australia just follows the US lead. Look at the reasons our minister gave for not signing Kyoto, strangely they are the same as the US's. Since Australia has lost some AU$6 billion in producing carbon credits for the Japanese.

We should be doing some form of affermative action to redress the inequity between the rich and the poor.

That is stop the subsidies, allow true free trade (not 'Armbusters', US envoy for free trade, version). All the third world needs (according to the WTO) is about a 5% increase in their exports to eliminate poverty. We could make this happen by removing the subsidies to our uneconomic industries.

In a true capitalist market an unviable industry is doomed to fail. This is not the case in our countries.

Make big business 'socially responsible' and make them pay for ANY polution they or the disposal of their products cause.

Before you say