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  1. Modding: Oracle MsSQL Firebird
    Devshed Supreme Being (6500+ posts)

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    Flames too easy on DevShed?


    Hi, according to me is sad to see such phrases in many posts:

    "Checked the search results and I got nothing so... HEre I go"
    "I hope that Subject wasn't too much of a PITA"

    and so on.
    Sure, I'd like that everyone does a search before posting, but I prefer some stupid questions than this "fear of asking" around.
    And I also think that a few guys here should be less harsh in pointing out those errors.
    What is your opinion?
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    Junior Member
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    I agree

    in mailing lists often the same question is asked dozens of time in a month.
    Maybe it's more accepted because there is no really searchable archive from those mailing list so people can't search.

    Altough a lot of replies always are "read the manual" "type perldoc -f func" etc.. but usually there is always one good soul that will answer the question, even if it's the 10th time it was asked.

    my 2 cents, which are worth only 10% of 2 cents since I'm a new poster here

    Etienne
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  5. phpkid ~~~~~~ :o)
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    Why SAD ??

    I think it would make us think like, 'no, this fellow is trying. He is not one of kind who likes spoon feeding'.

    I have been here for 6 months, and I have seen so many questions 100 times. I mean you may have see there is FAQ in php forum and it answers the question that are being asked. Still People doesnt care to check it and then they get flamed.

    A person could be helped if he is ready to help himself.

    JD
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  7. Modding: Oracle MsSQL Firebird
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    I agree with you when you say "A person could be helped if he is ready to help himself" but I think that the way some newbies are reminded to do a search is too harsh, too much bold, or capital letters or very short sentences, if you know what I mean.
    We shuld encourage everyone to study, not discourage him from asking.
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    Python Prophet
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    I think we should reply this way for a RTFM or UTFS question:
    <Give answer>

    Could you please use the search next time, this question has been asked before some times.

    /reply
    Just ask it nicely and I guess most of the newbies will do this.
    Some people, when confronted with a problem, think I know, I'll use regular expressions. Now they have two problems. - Jamie Zawinski, in comp.lang.emacs
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  11. Banned (not really)
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    First post in Lounge for me, I think...


    No, they learn that someone will give them the easy answer and ignore the "search" recommendation...

    been there, seen that.

    I think that it's good to see things like that in their questions. I agree with jdk, it shows us that the person at least attempted to look for an answer before they posted.

    ---John Holmes...
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  13. Web Developer
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    I actually agree with both JDK and Pabloj. The way many people point out facts to newbies is very harsh indeed. Like sending a wild animal from its cage. This is due to the lack of patience. I actually agree with them on many ocasions, but I try never to spit it on their faces. A good way to do this is give them a short reply on the result (not giving out too much) and then give them something to go on. Like a link to place that discusses the matter.

    On numerous occasions, the poster could have helped himself. Yes, this is true. Maybe with a little effort to debug or do a forum search or search other sites. But we cannot actually know the real motive for the question. He/she might just be asking to verify something or to get second/third opinion about something. I personally look for answers in many sources and have asked a question (I already got one answer) in these very forums. Why? To get a second opinion, which has often prooved the first one to be bad.

    And there is no stupid questions. When you start, you rarely have much to go on. Then the help of others is neseccery and even the simplest of things can be complicated. We all should know that. And how many million people currently struggling to learn the same thing? Many, I can tell you that. So what's wrong in asking the same question twice? Maybe during one day but not with sufficient periods. Lets say that you want to learn a specific feature about Regular Expressions. Okei, you type that into the keyword field and you get about 10000 results. Should they have to scroll through all of them to get the right answer?

    I don't think so. This is what I feel personally.
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  15. phpkid ~~~~~~ :o)
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    I am not sure.
    What I don't like is that they do same mistake twice.

    Now tell me arent there any annoucement stating how they should post ? What should be the thread title.

    I think thread title is really important.
    Still you would see that LOTS AND LOTS of ppl, even though they know put up stupidest title.

    Then there is very good FAQ by John. How many of them actually read it ?

    Lots of times we have to just point them to FAQ. and they get the solution, don't you think that they should be reading FAQ if not those 10,000 results.

    and also I don't think that you would get more than 50 results if you know keywords about your problem . Also these days, the searches are relavant so going through top 5 search result is 99% likely to get you solution if there exists.

    I remember early days when I came here,
    I hardly use to ask question, cause most of the time, I get the solution just by searching. I don't think I have ever asked a problem solution for last 3 months.

    Search Forums, search Google, Search Manual,

    Surely it can answer over 90% of your questions,
    I FIRMLY believe in it.

    The fact is that everyone wants quick solution, they want 'readymade' solution rather than exploring it. That is really bad.

    I hope they improve.

    See the latest example.
    This lady is here for so much long time, so many times we have asked her to follow guidelines, she has well over 300 posts, and still..............click here to see her latest thread. Hopeless.

    Its no wonder that she would get flammed.

    JD
    Last edited by jdk; December 7th, 2001 at 02:31 AM.
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  17. Web Developer
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    Well, sure I found FAQs and instruction posts (on top of the PHP forum very useful). But there are loop holes. As a live example, a person (newbie and learner of PHP) found the forum. He thought, I could my question there. He registered and and chose the beginner forum (after all he was a beginner) and posted his question there. What am I missing? ... ....

    The instructions, especially the one that discusses the appropriate way to post is in the PHP forum. But the man never went there 'cause he thought the beginner forum was the one meant for him. I find it actually odd that this particular help post is in the PHP forum. Don't those rules apply to all posters. Well, there was no happy ending to this story but I'll leave it out. I actually remember myself posting stupid titles, didn't get spit though. The fact is that not all new users have early experience of using forums. They might not even know what different thing and options mean. So how can we blame them for it.

    But yes, there has been people posting question, even on the same day the help post (by John) was placed, with bad titles and problem descriptions. They also got the appropriate the response. And yes, there are people who come here and think they will get a ready made and polished solution for their problems. But very few actually expect this from the authors and those who put effort in helping.

    About the search, I got 146 results by doing a search with "regular expression" to the PHP forum. When you think of it, each forum most like contains multible replies and some even over a dozen or more replies. That's huge amount of reading. It's almost easier to just post a question, "problem in deperating delimeters in regular expressions".

    About the "jennifer" case, okei... That's sad
    But hey, you can't blame her for not putting up a good post (exception on the title, though).

    My point being here is that people wouldn't flame every newbie who makes a mistake. I see posts where they almost get shot for just not posting a little thing correctly. And if a person doesn't like the way someone posts, he/she could send him/her a simple private message or not reply at all. That's an opinion too.
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  19. Modding: Oracle MsSQL Firebird
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    Hi JDK,
    you have chosen the perfect example, look at what I wrote her in another thread:
    enfortunately this is a case of parasitic user, maybe not the only one, who has found the perfect helpdesk, 24x7x365, no incident fees and competent ...
    Anyway I would like to summarize some suggestions:
    - Put at the head of every forum what is in php forum
    - Be polite
    - We are not forced to answer any question, so ...
    - We can suggest some courses, it can help support opensource too, and it's not an offense.
    Your opinion?
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  21. Web Developer
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    Very good Pabloj, that's what I was after. Just went for the more complicated way of saying it

    -- Tomi Kaistila
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  23. phpkid ~~~~~~ :o)
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    enfortunately this is a case of parasitic user, maybe not the only one, who has found the perfect helpdesk, 24x7x365, no incident fees and competent ...
    True. Very True.
    They find this place where they would get solutions for FREE !! and thats why they don't value it.

    And datamike, I am okie with beginners. I guess one might do mistakes.

    What I am saying that if one has posted a few times, he has been asked to look at guidelines and still he doesnt follow them. That SUCKS !!!

    See this thread.

    Now If I had power I wold have banned him FOREVER.

    I am STRONGLY against this kind of people who think that they are doing us favor by asking us question and not realising the fact that we are doing them favor.

    And jennifer, she is hopeless. I don't even read her thread. but just to put up example, I read it.

    about your regular expression problem, you SHOULD have search by kewords 'delimeter, regular, expression' and I am sure you would have narrow down results and would have found solution SURELY if there is one.

    It's all common sense which is absent.

    Anyways, I can go on and on,
    Better leave this.....
    JD
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  25. Web Developer
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    yeah, we better leave this be since we do not get any results with the debate. Anyway, as a reply to your example, you don't mind me commenting it do you?

    I found the original post to be a very good one. Only problem was that the man posted it in the wrong forum. Moreover, I though munkfish, himself, was acting more lika an ***. Why not mention to the man that he should next time take more care about posting questions in the right forum. But no.... Had to go flaming about.

    Everything after snmn's reply to munkfish, things get bad and are actually more or less unrelevent. I would've answered munkfish the same way, 'cause I found it very unappropriate, especially when he is himself is talking about the "right way".
    Last edited by Datamike; December 7th, 2001 at 03:51 AM.
    -- Tomi Kaistila
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  27. Wiking
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    Some good posts in this thread...

    Too bad that this 'parasitic user' deleted the mentioned thread...
    Guess the pointing fingers got too much for her, coz I doubt she understood the reason behind it all...
    Though you can still see the thread here... (Sorry, but I couldn't resist it )

    //NoXcuz
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  29. Web Developer
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    That's evil NoXcuz...
    -- Tomi Kaistila
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    The more you learn, the more you know.
    The more you know, the more you forget.
    The more you forget, the less you know.
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