Jobs in the computer field

Hello, I am currently majoring in computer science and I am worried about not being able to find a job when I graduate. As you probably know, in the last few years it has gotten increasingly difficult for people with comp-sci degrees to find jobs because of the immigrants on H1B visas who employers prefer because they can pay them less. And from what I've been reading it's only going to get worse, in the future American companies will not hire domestic programmers at all, but rather out-source the work to countries like India or China, which will cost then only a fraction of what it costs to hire American programmers.

In the classified section of my local newspaper I recently saw an ad looking for a programmer with a Bacehlors in computer science and two years experience, and the starting salary was $8 an hour. I know teenagers who are still in high school who make more than that. Now I am really depressed, and I am worried that I will not be able to make a good living once I graduate. Also I heard that there is a large degree of age discrimination in the IT industry, 40 is considered old and if you get laid off at 40 you will not easily find a job again. Yet another problem is that it seems almost everyone is majoring in computer science, and universities are producing too many comp-sci graduates and there aren't enough jobs to go around. At my university, 1 in 10 students is a comp-sci major.

The point of my post is to learn more about the computer field, and especially what is going to happen to programmers in the future. Do you think we (programmers) will be able to find employment 15 years from now? Is there anything I can do that will increase my job security? I would switch my major (probably to electrical engineering) but I don't want to do that because then I will have wasted two years in comp-sci for nothing. Is it possible to get a master's degree in electrical engineer after I get my bachelors' in comp-sci, without getting a bachelors in engineering first? I would like to hear any other ideas/thoughts/comments about this issue.

From my limited experience, I would say I don't think you can easily get a master's in ee w/o a bachelor's. Its probably possible, but you would have to make up a bunch of classes, so that you would be doing much more than a regular masters.
Its probably too late now, but its easier to go the other way around, get a bachelor's in engineering, then grad school for something else.
If you stick w/ comp sci, the best way to get better job security is to know a lot, and know it well. If there is a surplus (like there is of lawyers, for example) the best will still do just fine, but you won't want to be below average.
I wouldn't worry too much about what happens when you're 40. Odds are you will not be working in comp sci by then anyway. Its expected that the average person in college today could have as many as 8 careers during their working life. By the time you're 40, you could have an mba, or other graduate degree, or experience in other fields, and be working in something completely different. Speculating about conditions 20 years in the future is very problematic. Just do your best and be flexible.
Thats my opinon

there will always be jobs for programmers. the *nature* of those jobs, though, is changing.

if your #1 priority is employment then yr best route is to probably specialize in one of the big, proprietary "solutions" packages, ie:

sap
jd edwards
asp/vb web
peoplesoft

if you find that stuff too boring for words then you will have a tougher figbt.

remember that some insane percentage of jobs are never posted to the public. we are geeks and bad at handshaking and "networking" but, tragically, that's where the hiring happens.

on a side note: that $8 job is going to teach the company a lesson. that is: you can hire smart but desperate people for cheap, but they will leave with no notice in th e middle of a project when something better comes along. and then you are in trouble!

Don't worry about 20 years from now. Worry about the next 20 minutes. I mean no one knows what tomorrow will bring.

I just started a job as the IT director at a small start-up. My majors were in International Business and German. Granted I served as acting CTO for a dot com start-up that sold out for a few $$$ to a now dead isp back in 99. Also, computers have always been a hobby.

I live in Southwest Missouri, Springfield to be exact, and its home two three of the top 5 largest AS/400 datacenters in the world. (Basspro shops, O'Reily Autoparts, and Jack Henry & Assocaties [banking software) so those with AS/400 expirance had jobs. Pretty much all the other small business in town ran Windows networks. I had taught myself Linux, then FreeBSD, and finally Solaris, but for the few of those jobs there were, they had like 50 CIS/CS grads apply. I didn't even get an interview at most places.

Anyway, this small start up needed someone that was a jack of all trades. (ME) I do everything from setting up the office file server, to webpage design, to maintaining equipment to sales and marketing. Its a small business with now 4 employes that the owner/myboss started 2 years ago in his basement and now does about $250k a year and growing.

I am flexable. Somebody said specialize, DO NOT DO THAT! What happens if SAP is no longer a good product and something else comes out? Then you maybe SOL at 40. But by then chances are you will in management or something else. However, if you know how to program, the theory behind it, then you can buy a couple good books and learn the syntax and companies know this. However, if you know a little bit about system administration, coding, PERL,PHP,MySQL, database management and design theory, etc. your versitile. Maybe that SAP market is gone, but hey, can you learn XYZ? This is the key.

Now my weekly Salary isn't great ($500 a week), but I get of share of each contract I handle (10% - 25%) plus a 2% quarterly revenue sharing (not profit) and 5 - 10% of the Net Profit at end of the year along with standard medical insurance package. So yeah, my basic Salary is about $23k a year (Cost of living in the ozarks is cheap though I live comfortably on $1200 a month), however when you figure in bonuses it will proably be between 35k - 50k first year. Not bad for a college grad around here.

When you are starting out, you need to find a job that has some potential. You can take a couple bucks less to begin with, $500 a week will pay my room and board at the very least.

dont freak out about the outsourcing to other countries. it is an inevitable fact in all industries. it's a result of the communications boom (being able to email documents in a second instead of faxing or mailing), so its not limited to CS. CS is popular now because India and China have good reputations for pumping out great programmers, but don't fully believe the hype in the news--they have been known to exaggerate even if you become a EE major, or ME, or whatever, who is to say that it can't be outsourced either? it's just like movies companies filming in canada and people hiring mexican immigrants instead of americans...don't stress out about it. businesses are always going to do this because it's a smart move.

i would think that companies would outsource a lot of the small jobs, but i still think there is a big need for programmers. projects need planning and control, which is something that is hard to accomplish overseas.

also, there are many things to do with a CS degree besides programming, so don't stress over something you can't control.


p.s. what school do you go to? i go to UCLA and everyone is an econ major or international econ.

i swear ucla is full of dumb@$$e$

no! specialize!

but be prepared to retrain!

the guys who do the hiring are clueless about computers usually. if you go to an interview and they ask you about, say, yr php usage and you say "very little, but i'm kickass at perl". they won't say "oh those are easily transferrable skills", they'll just put an "x" beside php and wonder why there's no "perl" box.

i suggest you audit what's on the job boards now. you'll probably find that the skills i listed represent a big chunk of openings.

whether you can stomach that kind of work, however, is a different matter

i say stay away from IT, and go for more hardcore CS stuff.

thats more stable and thats what is not being outsourced as much.

anyone can do IT, not everyone can do real CS

I would say that you should be prepared to move around - don't be dismayed just because some of the jobs that you're looking at are only in the area you're looking. There could be another one that's perfect for both your skills and the salary you're expecting cross-state (you're American, right (judging by the language you've used in this post)?).

Also, most respectable companies, at least here in the UK, expect you to have two years' commercial experience in the computing field you're working in, regardless of your qualifications. Sometimes it's a case of getting your foot in the door, getting into a company, any company for a couple of years and from there you should have a basis with which to work from, with regard to finding better paying/more suitable jobs. At least, that's the way things work over here in the UK.

I would say, get yourself into some sort of programming job and stick with it a while. Get your experience built up. University might teach you a few things, but there's no substitute for practical experience, particularly in most employers' eyes.

Final words - don't look in the classifieds section in the local paper for work. You probably won't find anything that suits you in there. Ever. I've never seen many jobs in the local papers here that even RELATE to computing. Look elsewhere. Talk to people in the industry. If you don't know who to talk to, your school should have at least a few contacts they can put you in touch with, if they're worth their salt.

its not what you know, its who you know.

i agree with liljim on that.

the fact about experience is also true, but it depends. for small business IT jobs, they will want experience. however, if you are looking for a job at a big software company pr something they wont expect you to have practical experience in what they do. those companies will take you in from college and set you up with a mentor to guide you through a couple of years. it all depends