Page 2 - Let's Define Big/Enterprise vs. small to mid

Ted, this isn't really for web application per se. In this case Mozilla isn't a browser, it's an application. So instead of writing a java applet or a custom c++/vb app, you use Mozilla+XUL.

This gives you a cross-platform front end with a bunch of nifty, built in features that are really useful for networked communication, all on top of a programming structure that's at least partly familiar to most web developers. Sounds like a good idea to me .

Yeah I've heard of XUL, but didn't realise it offered so much. Still I need to investigate that further.

For client-side apps I recommend the best WYSIWYG editor on the net as being : http://bitflux.ch/editor/download.html

This works in Mozilla using XML/CSS/XSLT and has just gone open source These guys are cool as well. Basically they needed a cross-platform solution, before a cross-browser solution and as we know IE on a Mac just sucks.

Ted yeah XUL wont work in other browsers, but there are also many IE additions that don't work in other browsers (like exec command). To develop Web Applications you need an interface, and this means you *have* to use javascript. There is little way around it, so your clients have to be willing to turn javascript on. To combat this you can check users for javascript and give them some simple instructions if they get stuck It is similar to the flash argument, if you want interactive media in your web service you need Flash

The only problem I can see with XUL at this stage is getting your clients to use Mozilla! You might find that you need a version that works in IE too. This would mean use traditional javascript as much as possible, and then enriching your UI with XUL. As a UI developer XUL is exciting to me, and we're always trying to encourage people to use non-M$ products

Just to add an interesting link: www.webdav.org. An extension to the HTTP protocol that allows raw file transfer. This is very handy in allowing users to save to a file repository seamlessly from their standard applications, and having their documents checked in to some sort of Content Management System. Apparently it is almost as fast as saving straight to a server with windows explorer. Still a bit of a pain to extract meta data from applications (why wont people stop using M$ ), but I think a great step toward increasing the back-end capabilities of web services.

I'm just itching to play with XUL and SRM now

Z.

As I said, this is not at present a solution to "all websites", but a solution to specific development scenarios. You don't need XUL to create a standard dynamic website, but for a corporate database application, with very specific needs, it might be worthwhile to standardize on Mozilla. Let's face it: most corporate web apps of any complexity standardize on one browser. So, why not have it be Mozilla, and then the application can be accessed from the Macs in the marketing department, the Linux workstations in the server room, or the Windows desktops in Accounts?

Also, remember that the Mozilla Gecko rendering engine is being incorporated into more and more browsers, since it is a completely open source component. AOL is even considering moving their whole client application to this platform. When this happens, guess what will become the new standard...

In fact, I think it might even be possible to create a Gecko plug-in to IE, so that IE can use it to display XUL. Hint, hint, any VC++ developers out there...



Javascript is actually a very under-appreciated language. If you read the documentation, you will be amazed at what it can do. See "Javascript Programmer's Reference", by Wrox press.

In any of these cases, it is easy enough to detect the incoming browser, and provide user instructions.

Okay, I think I understand this now. Thanks for everyone's responses.

I checked out that tutorial and it the GUI did look impressive.

Ok, I just learned a bunch I never knew. Thanks for the link, rycamor.

I was wading through my daily newsletters and came across this article about Mozilla/XUL from DevX if any of you are interested in reading it:

http://www.devx.com/free/hotlinks/2...ote101602-1.asp

Good article.....

How's this for PHP in the enterprise: Yahoo is moving to PHP.

(The above link is a presentation by Yahoo's engineers. Apparently they are convinced enough to move from their proprietary C/C++ system to PHP.

You realize what we are talking about? The...world's...biggest...website moving to PHP. I think that qualifies as "enterprise" .

And of course, they are already using FreeBSD, and Apache. Now all we need to do is convince them to use PostgreSQL and they will achieve open source nirvana. Also, not that this is another GPL/BSD flamefest, but notice that PHP, Apache, and FreeBSD all have the BSD-style license. PostgreSQL would just round out the picture.

I know that the term LAMP has become popular (Linux Apache MySQL PHP), but I propose a new term: BAPP. (BSD, Apache, PHP, Postgresql). Any dissenters receive a bapp on the head...

Levity aside, the presentation by Yahoo gives a nice overview of pros and cons involving PHP in the enterprise. Good material for convincing manager-type people.

rycamor!!!

Good article.

I was thinking the same thing about BAPP! It is an enterprise level system, and far superior for heavy loads than LAMP. FreeBSD 5.0 is right around the corner (next month, major performance enhancements including improved multiprocessor support), and once Postgres gets their replication going to the general public, watch out!

Speaking of BSD, did you read the Department of Defense article regarding the use of open source and includes some blurbs about BSD?

http://www.egovos.org/pdf/dodfoss.pdf

Lol It certainly is blissful, as soon as we get the new apache tweaked right with SRM

Good article, and I've started looking seriously at XUL it is really exciting alright.

Z.

Actually that is a great, great article (like totally awesome).

Interesting the reason they didn't go with Java:


I thought Java worked sweet with threads. And then he goes on to say that thread support on FreeBSD isn't great. I never knew either of these

Check out the reasons for going with PHP, including:

Yeah baby - you know it

Also interesting to see they are looking for a template system (smarty is referenced). I bet they'd be interested in one written in C though, that doesn't include too much functionality like other template systems

1.5 billion pageviews a day, that is gotta be enterprise

Z.

1.5 billion pageviews a day

Amazing