1. 'fie' on me, allege-dly
    Devshed Supreme Being (6500+ posts)

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    I don't think he was arguing, merely stating how the speed limits came into existence, and the lunacy that is the basis for 'big government' decision making. Honestly, when you see some of the eejits out in the media grabbing a soundbite about their latest innovation, I just can't help but feel that not only is Darwin right, but that it should be promoted from a theory to a treatise, with some help if required.

    Case in point, I used to work in local government in Northern Ireland in the late eighties/early nineties, and there were persistent bombings of 'authority' targets, and this one councillor goes on telly, and says "Well, if they were trying to hit our computer infrastructure they missed, because it's on the other side of city hall", he went on to give them directions ... muppet.

    Big Government is comprised of mere mortals, there's no superpowers in government, they have to wipe their ***, the same as the rest of us, and they do make mistakes, often with far reaching consequences.

    The problem isn't really with the National ID Database, it's about how it can and will be abused. Sure someone can break into your home, but you put locks on the door to make it more difficult. From what I've heard thus far, the information is already for sale, and I've not heard one argument put forth about how the information will be safeguarded.

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  2. Banned (not really)
    Devshed Supreme Being (6500+ posts)

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    Then your arguement should be that the states maintain their own databases, then, but are still held to a federal standard for what's on the ID, who get's them, etc. I agree that security of the data is an issue, but it has to be addressed regardless of whether a national ID is adopted or not.

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    Originally Posted by Sepodati
    Then your arguement should be that the states maintain their own databases, then, but are still held to a federal standard for what's on the ID, who get's them, etc. I agree that security of the data is an issue, but it has to be addressed regardless of whether a national ID is adopted or not. ..
    Those are good arguments, and I made some of it way upthread. If you look at the reports of gross incompetence at DHS in their IT department, (DHS is the logical agency to define any Federal standard) the odds on their defining strong, reliable data storage are very small.

    The "who gets them" is a critical part of my argument, perhaps not well explained. Who gets them to use them for arbitrary and selective enforcement is a major concern, the Bill of Rights was written for concerns such as these. I'll grant that paying attention to the Constitution is not popular with the folks in Washington these days. Look at the serious police abuses over our history. Chicago police in 1968, the Selma ALA police, etc, much of J Edgar Hoover's power during his reign...

    If folks are serious about the issue, I strongly suggest looking at David Chaum's work. For most cases, you do not need an "ID" what you need is a credential, i.e. a credential that you care legal to drive a car, that you graduated from college, that you are Java certified, that you can work legally. Its easy when you use an ID to provide credentials, and many folks get the ideas confused. But they are separate issue. Google for "chaum credentials without identification"
    Last edited by fishtoprecords; October 11th, 2007 at 09:13 AM. Reason: typo fix
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    Originally Posted by crownjewel82
    Wow. You actually are stupid. Thanks for letting us know.
    Personal attacks do not become your argument.

    Do you really think that driving a 1972 Ford Galaxy at 70 miles and hour in 1973 ( when it was legal) was safer than driving 70 miles an hour in a 2007 Ford 500, which is illegal on the same road now, when the new car has better steering, brakes, tires, crumple zones, ABS, steering columns that won't punch through your heart, not to mention airbags?

    Its not the speed limit that makes it safe.
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    Its not the speed limit that makes it safe.
    True. Speed limits are arbitrary. The rest of us "pay the price" because of the few that would abuse driving without a limit. Oh well. I think you should pick your battles and this one isn't one to fight over. You don't _need_ to drive over 70... plan accordingly.

    I've always imagined the idea of an automated roadway where your license or car or whatever has an RFID type thing on it that registers you as being able to drive a certain speed.
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    Originally Posted by Sepodati
    True. Speed limits are arbitrary. The rest of us "pay the price" because of the few that would abuse driving without a limit. Oh well. I think you should pick your battles and this one isn't one to fight over. You don't _need_ to drive over 70... plan accordingly.
    70 is not some magical number that Moses brought down on a tablet.

    With airline travel nearly dead, a lot of business travel, that needs to be done, could be faster, and more productive, if we recognised travel as a critical part of our economy.

    American Interstate highways were designed for 80 MPH driving. We are a very long way from having the lane discipline that the Europeans have, but some folks need to drive and time is money.
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    Originally Posted by Sepodati
    I've always imagined the idea of an automated roadway where your license or car or whatever has an RFID type thing on it that registers you as being able to drive a certain speed.
    That would only make things more dangerous with people going anywhere between 30 and 45 on a road. You'll have the folks that are only allowed to go a slower speed, then you've got the folks allowed to go a faster speed weaving in and out between them.

    It'd make things more chaotic. Everyone going pretty much the same speed is safer.

    Originally Posted by fishtoprecords
    With airline travel nearly dead
    Preposterous.
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    I saw plenty of 75mph speed limits and to be honest I'm not really comfortable going any faster than that.

    Air travel dying? When? Can't wait! I avoided flying and chose to drive nearly 9,000 miles for my vacation so then I get back and now I need to hop on one of them flying death traps and go to Oregon for some stupid training $**&#*@!@~~!!

    I hate flying!

    Can't wait 'till it's dead. I'll pay for the funeral arrangements. Oh ... blessed quiet skies that I've only experienced one day in my life! (9/12/2001)
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    Originally Posted by medialint
    Air travel dying? When? Can't wait!
    Soon. I just took a flight from Boston to Washington, its about a 65 minute flight. I was crammed into the seat for over four hours, after waiting forever in the terminal.

    For trips under 300 miles, flying makes no sense.
    Build autobauns like Germany, and trips under 500 miles would be driven.

    Boston to my house is only about 9 hours driving with today's speed limits and traffic, my door to door time flying was over eight hours.
  10. Type Cast Exception
    Devshed Supreme Being (6500+ posts)

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    Originally Posted by fishtoprecords
    Soon.
    I like those firm numbers.

    It's only a ten hour drive to portland, I'd gladly do that instead of fly. Of course my company has to reimburse me for the mileage, but that's only going to be about $550-$600. Which should be about half what they spend on airfare because of the corporate rate (twice what normal people pay).

    Now I just need them to actually agree to this.
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  11. 'fie' on me, allege-dly
    Devshed Supreme Being (6500+ posts)

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    Was working ofr an outfit in Germany, and I signed up to weekly business class return tickets, decree came from on high, no more business class.

    I argued that if business class is no longer available, I now need to book an extra 3 hours a week for additional travel time, they agreed, I upgraded my tickets for just over 13% of what it cost them for the 3 hours, and I told them, they just said 'policy is policy'

    Air Fare schedules and prices when you've got nothing better to do, worth a read, and always book flights with a credit card, and wear a tie, best chances for getting bumped, and don't be shy, ask, I got business Boston to Heathrow, even though the trip was paid for with airmiles, man I wish I still had all those airmiles
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    I want my national ID now. I'm not going to be left behind. It takes a village to raise an idiot, and I am not going to be sucking hind tit here.

    Besides, I want to know when Ax enters this country. Between the two of us the stocks in the pubs could be seriously compromised.

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  13. Lounge Troll
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    All a national ID card will do is create more government overhead for a system we don't need. We have social security. Every American has a social security number. How many more numbers need to be attached to you?

    I don't know about you but I value my hard earned money and like lower taxes. By creating the national ID we're just creating more government waste.
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    Originally Posted by cody_e
    Every American has a social security number. How many more numbers need to be attached to you?
    Perhaps we can assume your statement is true, that "every" American has a SSN. But that does not mean that every American has a unique SSN.

    Or that it is a good idea to use SSN as a primary key. For one, its illegal. And since they are not unique, its a really bad idea.

    Of course, the main benefit of a National ID is that we can keep track of hackers from Wisconsin and lock them up when they do something that We Do Not Like.
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    Ok man I'm not a hacker. I don't feel the need to break into people's systems. Nice way of making an implicit personal insult.

    I am a strong supporter of small government and low taxes. This is just more unneeded government bureaucracy.

    Let's see how many forms of ID do I have:
    My SSN
    Wisconsin Driver's License
    Hunter's safety
    Snowmobile safety
    ATV safety
    My library card (both Marshfield and Sun Prairie)

    For non government ID's:
    My school ID
    My work ID

    Do I really need something else to carry around in my wallet?
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