1. Banned (not really)
    Devshed Supreme Being (6500+ posts)

    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Brussels, Belgium
    Posts
    14,640
    Rep Power
    4476
    Originally Posted by cody_e
    By creating the national ID we're just creating more government waste.
    Yes, it's far more efficient to have a system with 50 different standards. We see that every day, no? No reason to decide on a standard for web languages, we'll just conform our pages to the multiple standards. For more efficient that way.

    Welcome back Cody.
    -- Cigars, whiskey and wild, wild women. --
  2. Lounge Troll
    Devshed Loyal (3000 - 3499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,469
    Rep Power
    666
    Originally Posted by Sepodati
    Yes, it's far more efficient to have a system with 50 different standards. We see that every day, no? No reason to decide on a standard for web languages, we'll just conform our pages to the multiple standards. For more efficient that way.

    Welcome back Cody.
    Well isn't that a call to standardize the system we have now? Instead of creating more government make the government we have more efficient.
    Codeinated
  3. Type Cast Exception
    Devshed Supreme Being (6500+ posts)

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    OAKLAND CA | Adam's Point (Fairyland)
    Posts
    14,954
    Rep Power
    8617
    Originally Posted by cody_e
    O
    Let's see how many forms of ID do I have:
    My SSN
    Wisconsin Driver's License
    Hunter's safety
    Snowmobile safety
    ATV safety
    My library card (both Marshfield and Sun Prairie)

    For non government ID's:
    My school ID
    My work ID

    Start at the top of the list: unless it's your first day on a job you don't need your SSN card for anything take it out of your wallet and keep it in a firebox or something.

    Nor do you need your safety certs except when you're doing that.

    Do I really need something else to carry around in my wallet?
    * Debit card and/or credit card
    * Card that says "in case of emergency please contact ____" and also lets them know what drugs--if any--you are allergic to or other important medical info.

    Other things to put in your wallet:
    * Stamps
    * Business cards
    * Transit passes
    * HMO ID Card
    * Dental Insurance ID Card

    Oh and
    * Money
    medialint.com

    “Today you are You, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You.” - Dr. Seuss
  4. Back after 2 years!
    Devshed Intermediate (1500 - 1999 posts)

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Washington, DC Metro
    Posts
    1,747
    Rep Power
    886
    Originally Posted by cody_e
    All a national ID card will do is create more government overhead for a system we don't need. We have social security. Every American has a social security number. How many more numbers need to be attached to you?

    I don't know about you but I value my hard earned money and like lower taxes. By creating the national ID we're just creating more government waste.
    SSN is not a unique identifier. SSN+DOB is unique though. SSN should never be used as an ID number unless it's by the social security administration. Using SSN as a unique identifier has gotten way out of hand. It was implemented to be used as an ID number for one, and only one, organization.

    And the Privacy Act of (I want to say 1972, but I don't recall off the top of my head) says that no individual can be adversely affected by refusing to provide or use an SSN for identification.
  5. Lounge Troll
    Devshed Loyal (3000 - 3499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,469
    Rep Power
    666
    I don't carry my SSN card. Oh yeah I do have my credit card in my wallet.
    Codeinated
  6. 'fie' on me, allege-dly
    Devshed Supreme Being (6500+ posts)

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    in da kitchen ...
    Posts
    12,889
    Rep Power
    6444
    the UK were pushing for a similar ID scheme, and the "Tale of 2 CD's" sorted that one out. If central government can send unencrypted information by CD, unregistered, so's it gets lost, it proves 'accidents' can happen. Regardless of the amount of safeguards ... excrement invariably occurs.

    IMO each of the systems that the ID card are proposed to permeate, are currently disparate and should be disparate, both in terms of functionality, and more importantly responsibility.
    --Ax
    without exception, there is no rule ...
    Handmade Irish Jewellery
    Targeted Advertising Cookie Optout (TACO) extension for Firefox
    The great thing about Object Oriented code is that it can make small, simple problems look like large, complex ones


    09 F9 11 02
    9D 74 E3 5B
    D8 41 56 C5
    63 56 88 C0
    Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use regular expressions." Now they have two problems.
    -- Jamie Zawinski
    Detavil - the devil is in the detail, allegedly, and I use the term advisedly, allegedly ... oh, no, wait I did ...
    BIT COINS ANYONE
  7. Back after 2 years!
    Devshed Intermediate (1500 - 1999 posts)

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Washington, DC Metro
    Posts
    1,747
    Rep Power
    886
    Rather than an actual National ID card, I think the US needs to adopt a national driver's license. It's a pain moving from one state to another and switching your license. When I moved to VA from PA, it took me nearly 3 months to get everything straightened out and it's not like I had to be retested or anything.

    If you can prove residency (i.e. a utilities bill), you should be able to just have your address updated on your license without having to stand in line at a DMV for nothing.
  8. Contributing User
    Devshed Frequenter (2500 - 2999 posts)

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    outside Washington DC
    Posts
    2,642
    Rep Power
    3699
    Originally Posted by Adrastea0413
    Rather than an actual National ID card, I think the US needs to adopt a national driver's license. It's a pain....
    And deprive all the states of all their own license fees? Cause all the clerks at every DMV in the country to lose their jobs? starting a recession?
  9. No Profile Picture
    Brony & F/OSS Advocate
    Devshed Supreme Being (6500+ posts)

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Anaheim, CA (USA)
    Posts
    6,652
    Rep Power
    2475
    Originally Posted by fishtoprecords
    And deprive all the states of all their own license fees? Cause all the clerks at every DMV in the country to lose their jobs? starting a recession?
    Unless you explain in your argument explicitly how the premise (deprivation of states' licensing fees) will directly and inevitably cause the conclusion (DMV clerks losing their jobs ad the economy going into a recession), it is invalid. This is a logical error called "Fallacious Slippery Slope," if you're interested in researching it further.
    ~~ Peter ~~ :: ( Who am I? ) :: ( Peter's Musings: Uploading myself, bit by bit... ) :: ( Electronic Frontier Foundation ) :: ( I'm a GNU/Linux addict and Free Software Advocate. ) :: ( How to Ask Questions the Smart Way ) :: ( The Fedora Project, sponsored by Red Hat ) :: ( GNOME: The Free Software Desktop Project ) :: ( GnuPG Public Key ) :: ( About me on the WIki )
  10. Contributing User
    Devshed Frequenter (2500 - 2999 posts)

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    outside Washington DC
    Posts
    2,642
    Rep Power
    3699
    Its easy.

    1) Feds start national license, replacing state license.
    2) states lose fees from state license
    3) DMV clerks have less work, no need to issue state licenses
    4) state cuts jobs at DMV because no need for excess workers
    5) some DMV employees go on unemployment
    6) state tax revenue goes down because formerly working and tax paying folks are out of money6) after a while unemployment runs out
    7) unemployement benefits expire, ex-DMV workers are broke
    8) state tax revenue goes down because formerly working and tax paying folks are out of money
    9) state cuts workers because of lower revenue for taxes and fees.
    10) repeat as needed.
    11) economy falls into sand monster.

    One could argue that this might not happen, but then politicians argue that they have control over the economy when they are in office. They also argue that when they are out of office, the economy could be better and would be if they were in office. This ignores a tiny fact: They have no control.
  11. Lounge Troll
    Devshed Loyal (3000 - 3499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,469
    Rep Power
    666
    Wow many you are pulling at straws. How can a select group of people, maybe 0.05% of the population cause a recession?

    Plus there'd still be a need for those services. I think we should keep our current system but standardize it for every state.
    Codeinated
  12. Back after 2 years!
    Devshed Intermediate (1500 - 1999 posts)

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Washington, DC Metro
    Posts
    1,747
    Rep Power
    886
    Originally Posted by fishtoprecords
    And deprive all the states of all their own license fees? Cause all the clerks at every DMV in the country to lose their jobs? starting a recession?
    Yes. If I had my way, every DMV would be shut down too. Should I feel bad that they'd lose their unnecessary job?

    Let's not forget though, with a national license, it would still have to be created somewhere. If I live in Virginia and I get my license, I'd get it in Virginia... but I should be able to take it with me when I move. And if I move into Virginia, I'd pay Virginia DMV to update the address on it. It wouldn't deprive anyone from anything.
  13. <?PHP user_title("gimp"); ?>
    Devshed Supreme Being (6500+ posts)

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Internet
    Posts
    7,652
    Rep Power
    6084
    As I see it, the DMV is one of those very long branches of our bureaucracy that is almost completely useless. Sure, there are a few things that humans should be doing, but at least 90% of what's done should be automated. The machine tells you what to do, you do it, you slip the forms into the machine, it checks it, it asks you to verify information, and it asks you to correct as needed (or rewrite something if it cannot understand it).

    This is similar to a friends' school where there are ~ten secretaries handling calls. One secretary handles early dismissal, one handles people being late to school/class, one handles the constantly-happening suspensions, etc. And I'm over here thinking "Hey, this is what a fill-in-the-black web app with a database is for! See those ten people? I can make all their jobs (and them) useless in a few weeks of coding!"
    Chat Server Project & Tutorial | WiFi-remote-control sailboat (building) | Joke Thread
    “Rational thinkers deplore the excesses of democracy; it abuses the individual and elevates the mob. The death of Socrates was its finest fruit.”
    Use XXX in a comment to flag something that is bogus but works. Use FIXME to flag something that is bogus and broken. Use TODO to leave yourself reminders. Calling a program finished before all these points are checked off is lazy.
    -Partial Credit: Sun

    If I ask you to redescribe your problem, it's because when you describe issues in detail, you often get a *click* and you suddenly know the solutions.
    Ches Koblents
  14. Contributing User
    Devshed Frequenter (2500 - 2999 posts)

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    outside Washington DC
    Posts
    2,642
    Rep Power
    3699
    Originally Posted by cody_e
    Plus there'd still be a need for those services. I think we should keep our current system but standardize it for every state.
    Now you need Federal standards, and bureaucrats to check that the state DMV is complying with them. Forms to indicate compliance. Bureaucrats to check the forms. And more bureaucrats to handle variance processing, since drivers in Boston have different needs than drivers in Wisconsin or Wyoming -- some will have to apply for, be adjudicated, and granted special waivers from the Federal standards.

    I though you wanted small, efficient government. Sounds like your asking to grow the Big Inefficient Federal government.
  15. <?PHP user_title("gimp"); ?>
    Devshed Supreme Being (6500+ posts)

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Internet
    Posts
    7,652
    Rep Power
    6084
    As stated above, you really don't need people to be doing most of that work in today's day and age. You could create and enforce standards much easier with machines, because they damn well do what they're told to.

    Comments on this post

    • cody_e agrees
    Chat Server Project & Tutorial | WiFi-remote-control sailboat (building) | Joke Thread
    “Rational thinkers deplore the excesses of democracy; it abuses the individual and elevates the mob. The death of Socrates was its finest fruit.”
    Use XXX in a comment to flag something that is bogus but works. Use FIXME to flag something that is bogus and broken. Use TODO to leave yourself reminders. Calling a program finished before all these points are checked off is lazy.
    -Partial Credit: Sun

    If I ask you to redescribe your problem, it's because when you describe issues in detail, you often get a *click* and you suddenly know the solutions.
    Ches Koblents

IMN logo majestic logo threadwatch logo seochat tools logo