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    Have you ever read the book hitchhikers guide to the galaxy?


    Have you ever read the book hitchhikers guide to the galaxy?
    During part of the book it describes the ident-eeze cards ,(which it calls the stupidest invention ever) which contain all personal data and can be used to do anything in that persons name. In the story someone steals the ident-eeze card of a company head, realizes he could do anything with it, move the company to a different owner. obviously these identification cards arent excatly the same, but pose similar problems.

    But we have bigger issues, these cards are a waste of funds, something the u.s. doesnt have. Iraq has already put us in debt (for no real reason i might add, there were no weapons)
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    The cards are a waste. The liberal Gov. in Canada and the US (georgey boy) are trying to get a continental ID card (include mexico). That's a waste of money. Wouldn't you love it if you went to Canada and our cops could pull up everything you did in the US and every crime? Or if Canadians went to the US and their cops could see our status from Canada?
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    Oh god, that'd be terrible. Imagine if the police could find out you're a worthless ****ing criminal in one country when you commit a crime in another. God! Imagine the horror!!! No more running across the border to hide? Oh ****!

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    • karsh44 agrees : Oh noes!
    • Arty Ziff disagrees : If you have money, there is always Costa Rica..
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    I agree the continental card would be a waste but not becaus of access to criminal records. It's a waste because if they have reason to suspect you all they have to do is pick up a phone.
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    Originally Posted by rternier
    The cards are a waste. The liberal Gov. in Canada and the US (georgey boy) are trying to get a continental ID card (include mexico). That's a waste of money. Wouldn't you love it if you went to Canada and our cops could pull up everything you did in the US and every crime? Or if Canadians went to the US and their cops could see our status from Canada?
    Tell me, and please be specific, why you don't like this idea? Are you a criminal? Do you believe you are above the law and should be able to screw people with impunity simply by crossing the boarder? How would, in your mind, such a law hurt normal everyday people that don't commit crimes? Do you belong to a gang? Anarchist?

    [EDIT]

    If "Continental Cards" would bring us closer to a solution to the Mexican Illegal problem, I'm for it. Clearly these fine people with a tremendous work ethic serve a purpose in North America in that they do work we don't want to. Finding a way to legitimize their presence would give relief to Law Enforcement and allow for the improvement of how migrant laborers are treated...
    Last edited by Arty Ziff; January 2nd, 2006 at 03:13 PM.
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    Ok for the record, I don't think that illegals fill jobs that citizens aren't willing to do. Yes there are some jobs that citizens don't do that illegals do, but that's not the whole reason for the problem like some people who want us to believe. It's more along the lines of, they're willing to work for far less than citizens are. And employers know this. Personally I don't get why someone can't come here on a temporary visa (tourist, student, etc) and get a job that would help qualify them for a long term residency or citizenship. If they can find a job illegally, stands to reason they should be able to find one legally.

    Anyhow, here's what I don't get. All this information that the government will magically have access to if these id cards (national or continental) are created, what makes you think they don't already have access to this information? You'd have to be an idiot not to believe that whatever information someone, government or otherwise, wanted about you was more than a phone call away.
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    Originally Posted by crownjewel82
    Ok for the record, I don't think that illegals fill jobs that citizens aren't willing to do.
    So, you think most legal Americans want to work in the orchards and fields picking fruit and lettuce for **** wages without benefits or job security? You see many legal Americans hanging out outside Home Depot looking for under-the-counter low paying back-breaking construction work without benefits or job security? Really? Not where I live...

    Even if the jobs paid well and did have benefits, it's a well established fact that most Americans shy away from physical labor. Saying different my be your opinion, but it's just delusional.
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    Originally Posted by me
    Yes there are some jobs that citizens don't do that illegals do, but that's not the whole reason for the problem like some people who want us to believe.
    I also think that if they could obtain some sort of legal status they wouldn't have to hang outside of home depot looking for under-the-counter low paying back-breaking construction work without benefits or job security. They would have benifits and job security like any other legal worker. And the employer wouldn't be able to cut corners on labor laws by hiring them instead of legal workers.

    Yes most Americans do shy away from physical labor. Largely because our collective dilusions of entitlement. Maybe you haven't seen the many citizens who work low paying back breaking jobs and have no such dilusions of entitlement except where it regards legal employee rights. (Oh and BTW, I live in a "right to work" state.)
    Last edited by crownjewel82; January 2nd, 2006 at 08:05 PM.
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    I am 100% FOR NATIONAL ID CARDS - so long as they include a citizen ID number.

    The reason?

    Because I ****ing despise social security, and once we do away with it, each citizen will need an ID to be identified by.

    The law states that a social security is not legally allowed to be used by the government for any use other than social security payments, and cannot be asked for by a private group! And yet it is how we're IDed now.

    We need a real ID for each person that is allowed for other things.
    If someone doesn't want it, then let them move out of the country, to be a citizen requires membership.

    This also helps with issues of taxation, when more dynamic taxes are put into place in the year 2054..
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    Whoever mentioned the idea of only old-*** paranoid idiots having an issue with the government spying is RIGHT ON.

    The US government can't even listen to terrorists plot 911 without a 5 month delay.

    They can't do taxes in a timely manner 'cuzz they use 1988 brand computers.

    They don't even have a cumulative list of murders, rapists, and child molestors to track them.

    They don't have a national database of DNA and fingerprints, isntead they have dozens of lists to search through.


    How the **** does someone think they're gonna spy on anyone when a first grader can handle more intelligence gathering than these group of butt pirates?

    think about it!

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    Originally Posted by masterminds
    Because I ****ing despise social security, and once we do away with it, each citizen will need an ID to be identified by.
    We could do away with Social Security, but just keep the ID part of it....

    Whoever mentioned the idea of only old-*** paranoid idiots having an issue with the government spying is RIGHT ON.
    Complete bull****. Have you not heard that the NSA was recently discovered to have been illegally spying on US citizens? And did you know that this was not excatily the first time this has happened? Have you not noticed that leading security experts in the field are *very* reserved about trusting the government to evesdrop?

    And did you know that we HAD the data necessary to pick up the 9-11 terrorists? A common misconception is that we need to collect more data because we didn't have enough. But that's wrong, we DID have enough data, we just didn't communicate it properly. The government did listen to terrorists' plots for 9-11, they just didn't organize it quickly enough. The NSA determined that an attack was going to happen just hours before it actually did. They just didn't know where or how. They would have known a lot more if they'd communicated with other agencies who knew that all 19 (or 20 if you want to count the left out guy) hijackers were shaddy characters at best. We where actually aware of and monitoring the hijackers before they launched their attack. The problem was that everybody just saw their own small portion of the picture, nobody saw the entire thing put together, and so nobody acted appropriately.

    We need a real ID for each person that is allowed for other things.
    If someone doesn't want it, then let them move out of the country, to be a citizen requires membership.
    I will be at the front of that line. I wouldn't want to be a part of a country where the public embraces such a system with unquestioning open arms.

    They can't do taxes in a timely manner 'cuzz they use 1988 brand computers.
    The NSA builds the world's best computers. They buy from no one, everything they use is designed from the circut up. They obviously don't release specs on their stuff, but we have seen evidence and heard rumor in the past that their stuff can kick the world's best so-called super-computers squarely in the a$$. Exactily how true this is today we don't know, but rest assured that the largest collection of the world's brightest mathemations and engineers is at least keeping up to par.

    Incidentally, the NSA has nothing to do with calculating your taxes. That stuff gets relegated to the lesser intellegence agencies.

    How the **** does someone think they're gonna spy on anyone when a first grader can handle more intelligence gathering than these group of butt pirates?
    The NSA evesdrops on about 70% of all Internet communications and cell phone calls (not sure exactily how many hard-line phone calls they're rumored to pick up, but it's decent as well). Let those numbers sink in for a moment. On average, they will listen to 7 out of the 10 pages you request from DS in your visit here. You don't think that's some damn good snooping?

    And that's 70% on average. What if you're on their watch list? Don't you think they'll divert resources to monitor you 24/7?


    Remember, government intellegence is NOT stupid. The bozo's at the end of the chain make it look that way sometimes, but they aren't. Communication is the primary weakness they have, not data gathering, and they have taken large steps toward optimizing those problems since 9-11.

    You think you're safe becuase you don't actually know your enemy. If you knew who you were actually facing, what they could do, and what they have proven they are willing to do, you would have a completely different level of respect and fear for them. We aren't dealing with a bunch of idiots, we're dealing with a **** load of the world's best geniuses that are occationally impeeded because of stupid politics and managers.
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    First off. are you familiar with the edit button. It's down at the bottom where the reply buttton is. This double posting crap is getting kind of old.

    Second. I know you didn't quote me. But I was the most recent one to mention paranoia so I'll just pretend you did.

    If you go back and read you'll notice that while I did say that you'd have to be an idiot not to realize this. I didn't say that only paranoid idiots would have a problem with it. And while I don't have a problem with national ID cards I do have a problem with most of the stuff you listed. In fact, you just handed these guys a vey strong opposing platform. First off, your posts display a certain level of ignorance. The government uses 1988 brand computers. ROFLMAO. You've been watching too many old movies. Grow up. :|

    They don't even have a cumulative list of murders, rapists, and child molestors to track them.

    They don't have a national database of DNA and fingerprints, isntead they have dozens of lists to search through.
    Contrary to popular belief, criminals have rights too. And once they've done their time they have every right not to be bothered by the government. The only reason why sex offenders are tracked is because the recitivisim rate for sex offenders is abysmilly high. And btw, fingerprints, dna, etc. are covered by the fouth ammendment. Meaning they can't force you to give it up without a warrant. So yea.
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    paranoid idiots in a time of war against a moving target.

    Let's see, say for example the draft was reinstated, a national ID, where all records are linked to it, say for example a methodical MIS operative decided that he wanted to run a query against the db for maybe males/females who fit a certain profile (income/race/sexual preference/whatever), and another conscientious employee decides to use this query to fill his current draft requirements ...

    Hey, who's to know, privacy is a thing of the past

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    Once again though. All they need for that is census records. Or social security records. They don't need a national ID card to do that. I'd rather spend my energy fighting against those who would misuse that information than the existence of that information. I'd rather fight against listening in on citizens without a warrant. I'd rather fight against the patriot act. I'd rather fight against secret courts and secret prisoners.
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    census records are dated as of the last census
    The ease of use of such info as a collated source is something to be feared, and not necessarily from the govt.
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