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    Re: Blackhat Linking in Forum


    Hello,

    To the moderator who said "You do the crime, you do the time..." I find your response to my request to remove a spam link pointing to our business bizarre and unpleasant.

    I think you need to tell this to the previous SEO company/people who created thousands of links without the owners knowledge/permission in completely unrelated forums/directories such as this. These are the people who have made their money and left unsuspecting website owners and genuine businesses to pick up the pieces.

    In this instance ALL of the SEO had been carried out prior to the current ownership of the business, it's been hit by Penguin updates hence why we are trying to clean up previous link farming and spammy links to try and claw back this persons livelyhood (they paid a great deal of money for the business not realising what had previously be done).

    Please let me know if you will not be removing the link I requested and we will then have to add your forum to our disavow request to Google, I'm sure you already know but this is to let Google know of websites who actively allow spam link building so that they may mark them down in serps.

    Cheers.
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    These forums, specifically the SEO forums, are for SEO support for our users, not link spamming, which ruins forums. We spend a lot of time keeping our corner of the internet spam-free and we do not take it very seriously, or with any urgency, when someone representing those spammers makes a request/complaint.

    If the company did not know what they were paying for and did not ask questions of the SEO provider before acquiring their services, then that is their own irresponsible fault. If the new owners did not properly investigate the business that they were purchasing, then that is their mistake.

    Pleading the innocent, injured party in all this does not come across very well, considering that the company you represent is only now taking action due to a Google update damaging their listings not from wanting to clean up their act and behave as a responsible business.

    I find your request an insulting joke.

    "We spammed your forums to increase traffic to our websites. Now that Google has lowered our listings for being despicable spammers, we want you to remove the spam. We're really sorry, it's not our fault. Honest."

    Another moderator made the decision, so I will not get involved in that.

    Comments on this post

    • ManiacDan agrees : Wasn't me either, but I support you.
    • codergeek42 agrees : I did not make the decision either; but I agree with it completely.
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    Originally Posted by Winters
    These forums, specifically the SEO forums, are for SEO support for our users, not link spamming, which ruins forums. We spend a lot of time keeping our corner of the internet spam-free and we do not take it very seriously, or with any urgency, when someone representing those spammers makes a request/complaint.

    If the company did not know what they were paying for and did not ask questions of the SEO provider before acquiring their services, then that is their own irresponsible fault. If the new owners did not properly investigate the business that they were purchasing, then that is their mistake.

    Pleading the innocent, injured party in all this does not come across very well, considering that the company you represent is only now taking action due to a Google update damaging their listings not from wanting to clean up their act and behave as a responsible business.

    I find your request an insulting joke.

    "We spammed your forums to increase traffic to our websites. Now that Google has lowered our listings for being despicable spammers, we want you to remove the spam. We're really sorry, it's not our fault. Honest."

    Another moderator made the decision, so I will not get involved in that.
    Well your simplistic view of the world is extremely narrow minded and misguided if you do not mind me saying.

    In this instance, as I have said, the person who purchased the website had no knowledge or understanding of what SEO was let alone spam, just a genuine honest person who thought they were buying a retail business with their life savings and who, since last April has suffered a great deal of stress and anxiety as their trade has dwindled and their life savings investment turned into dust. The black hat SEO was carried out before purchase anyway, but even if they had paid for SEO and this link had been placed here (along with spammy directories), the business owner would still be guided by an SEO company and most likely trust their actions without looking too deeply into how their site is optimised, obviously the only reason they are paying someone in the first place.

    The people at fault are without doubt those who take large amounts of money from unsuspecting general public, then spam and link build in places like this or wherever else to gain artificial boosts to their clients site (which rarely last long and often even have negative effects). In the past this was the norm for some, obviously now that Google is actively seeking out spam factories the only way is to ask politely to remove the link/s, which we had absolutely no knowledge or control over, and thankfully, if a website irresponsibly refuses to remove the links or they are no longer cotactible Google has provided the disavow tool and there is also now a way to report spam sites.

    Personally I think the initial moderator has made a big issue over something which could have been resolved in a split second, it now looks to me as though you are actively allowing spam. I won't get into too much more discussion as I think I've explained the situation enough.

    Maybe being polite in the first instance was a waste of time.

    Cheers.
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  7. Sarcky
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    So wait. This is my first introduction to this drama, so let me see if I can figure out what's going on.

    There is a company. We'll call them SpamCo. They were a bunch of spammers and spammed the forums.

    SpamCo changed hands. Whoever bought them apparently did so as an impulse purchase and has no idea that SpamCo did spamming.

    Some time later, there's some sort of unspecified action taken by Google.

    Now, SpamCo, riding low on their destroyed reputation, begins to try to clean up their previous mistakes. This took the form of, I assume, some sort of spam report which I ignored because I was busy. SpamCo, the corporation, is performing these actions, not any given individual who may be representing the corporation.

    Instead of being apologetic and polite, we get...this. Insults, defenses, and sob stories about how it was someone ELSE at the helm of SpamCo and we should just...trust SpamCo now because you pinky swear that you're not the same person.

    I don't buy it. And I agree with the original mod, whoever that was. You (SpamCo) do the crime, you do the time. There's a reason companies do entire brand overhauls and rename the LLC. It's because they're unable to dig themselves out of the hole any other way. Your hole is too deep. Give up and move on.
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    Originally Posted by ManiacDan
    So wait. This is my first introduction to this drama, so let me see if I can figure out what's going on.

    There is a company. We'll call them SpamCo. They were a bunch of spammers and spammed the forums.

    SpamCo changed hands. Whoever bought them apparently did so as an impulse purchase and has no idea that SpamCo did spamming.

    Some time later, there's some sort of unspecified action taken by Google.

    Now, SpamCo, riding low on their destroyed reputation, begins to try to clean up their previous mistakes. This took the form of, I assume, some sort of spam report which I ignored because I was busy. SpamCo, the corporation, is performing these actions, not any given individual who may be representing the corporation.

    Instead of being apologetic and polite, we get...this. Insults, defenses, and sob stories about how it was someone ELSE at the helm of SpamCo and we should just...trust SpamCo now because you pinky swear that you're not the same person.

    I don't buy it. And I agree with the original mod, whoever that was. You (SpamCo) do the crime, you do the time. There's a reason companies do entire brand overhauls and rename the LLC. It's because they're unable to dig themselves out of the hole any other way. Your hole is too deep. Give up and move on.
    God this is hard work, you evidently didn't read my posts.

    This is not an SEO company, it's an individual who bought a business in good faith then discovered the previous owners had carried out SEO by your "Spamco" and "Spamco" made their money and are long since gone. Not sure who you think is looking for sympathy. As I said was initially trying to be polite by asking for the link to be removed in a seperate thread, and then a few moronic posts followed. It's not that big a deal, will leave it till the weekend and if the link is not removed we will 1. Include this site in a disavow request to Google and 2. Report the site to Google for actively allowing spam.

    Sorted. Have a nice day!
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  11. Sarcky
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    I did read your posts. Multiple times. Many of the mods did. There's an entire thread in the private mod forum about these posts, and none of us can figure out what you mean. You're getting awfully defensive for someone who still seems to be admitting to spam.

    It still seems pretty clear to me that someone at your company made a terrible decision. They either spammed or they contracted with spammers, but their money went directly into spamming. If you're honestly trying to "make good" on that action, start by actually being good. Throwing insults around and saying "it's not my fault" isn't helping.

    will leave it till the weekend and if the link is not removed we will 1. Include this site in a disavow request to Google and 2. Report the site to Google for actively allowing spam.
    Oh no are you going to call THE INTERNET POLICE on us? My goodness gracious we'd better do what you say post-haste!

    This forum contains a single link out to a single domain in a help forum about SEO. That is objectively not spam. If you're getting in trouble for it, that means you (or someone previously working for or contracted by your company) published this link so widely on the internet that the link itself is labeled spam by metadata services. That is (a) not devshed's problem and (b) not devshed's fault. It's a shame someone at your company who may or may not be you made such a poor decision, but your initial post leads us to believe you're only trying to make reparations because you were "hit by penguin" (presumably the google penguin 2.0 spam filtering project) and now your business is hurting because of all the evil things you did way back when.

    Had you simply come on and said "I'm trying to clean up some old spam my company inadvertently allowed to be plastered all over the internet; I know this thread is old but I'd still like to ask that it be cleaned up" we would have done so and left you alone. But instead you said "please delete this link, we're getting in trouble for it." A person who only tries to rectify their mistakes when they get caught is not a good person, they're just selfish.

    Not you, of course, the nebulous former owner of your company which may or may not be the SpamCo from my example above, your sentence changed halfway through your explanation.

    Comments on this post

    • codergeek42 agrees : Exactly this. (Also, "internet police" made me LOL.)
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    Originally Posted by ManiacDan
    I did read your posts. Multiple times. Many of the mods did. There's an entire thread in the private mod forum about these posts, and none of us can figure out what you mean. You're getting awfully defensive for someone who still seems to be admitting to spam.

    It still seems pretty clear to me that someone at your company made a terrible decision. They either spammed or they contracted with spammers, but their money went directly into spamming. If you're honestly trying to "make good" on that action, start by actually being good. Throwing insults around and saying "it's not my fault" isn't helping.

    Oh no are you going to call THE INTERNET POLICE on us? My goodness gracious we'd better do what you say post-haste!

    This forum contains a single link out to a single domain in a help forum about SEO. That is objectively not spam. If you're getting in trouble for it, that means you (or someone previously working for or contracted by your company) published this link so widely on the internet that the link itself is labeled spam by metadata services. That is (a) not devshed's problem and (b) not devshed's fault. It's a shame someone at your company who may or may not be you made such a poor decision, but your initial post leads us to believe you're only trying to make reparations because you were "hit by penguin" (presumably the google penguin 2.0 spam filtering project) and now your business is hurting because of all the evil things you did way back when.

    Had you simply come on and said "I'm trying to clean up some old spam my company inadvertently allowed to be plastered all over the internet; I know this thread is old but I'd still like to ask that it be cleaned up" we would have done so and left you alone. But instead you said "please delete this link, we're getting in trouble for it." A person who only tries to rectify their mistakes when they get caught is not a good person, they're just selfish.

    Not you, of course, the nebulous former owner of your company which may or may not be the SpamCo from my example above, your sentence changed halfway through your explanation.
    I cannot believe that you do not understand something so simple, I think there's some kind of communication barrier here. What spam company am I supposed to be working for lol? This was a simple request to remove a link in your forum created by a spammy SEO company many years ago to a website which was then sold to someone else who had no idea oF SEO/SPAM/LINK BUILDING etc.

    I actually don't care, maybe you should look up disavow in Google, it's not a problem as that is what we shall now do, but hey if you wish for this forum to be flagged up by Google as a home for spam links then that is your perogative, it could lead to you being penalised in serps though, so, quite franky a bizarre approach to take.

    Here for you:

    1. Website created
    2. Link Farming takes place
    3. Website gets top of Google
    4. Website sold to new owner (read this line a few times may help you)
    5. New owner knows nothing of SPAM/LINK FARMING etc
    6. Website hit by Penguin updates
    7. New owner realises previous Black Hat SEO took place before ownership.
    8. New owner asks politely for link to be removed from a forum which was used for Black Hat SEO and SPAM.
    9. Forum mod refuses making childish quote "do the crime do the time"
    10. Gets peoples back ups.

    Anyway, as I said if it's not removed shortly this forum will be reported to Google for allowing spam, they are actively asking for such sites to be reported and you seem to wish to keep forum spam. If you do find the site drops for certain keywords etc in coming months this could be to do with what we have discussed here.
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  15. Sarcky
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    I cannot believe that you do not understand something so simple, I think there's some kind of communication barrier here. What spam company am I supposed to be working for lol? This was a simple request to remove a link in your forum created by a spammy SEO company many years ago to a website which was then sold to someone else who had no idea oF SEO/SPAM/LINK BUILDING etc.
    I understand it quite well. Try to understand this though: The fact that someone bought a company with a bad reputation is that person's own fault. They did not perform due diligence and I have little sympathy for a person who buys a company which spammed me and then says "but that wasn't me! That was my company, owned by some other guy! I promise!"

    Read that a few times if you're still having trouble. Nobody has ever doubted that the company changed hands. It's still the same company though. The company is at fault, regardless of the owner. And the company is being punished, again regardless of the owner. Clearly you've had this same argument with Google otherwise all these links from years and years ago wouldn't be giving you any trouble. Go tell google "the company changed hands, so please whitelist us because it wasn't actually us." Again, I'm going to say it: The company you work for is being penalized because the company you work for engaged in spamming (and/or contracted with a third party to spam on their behalf, if you'd like to get pedantic).


    I actually don't care, maybe you should look up disavow in Google, it's not a problem as that is what we shall now do
    I did look up disavow in google. I've been following the penguin tool closely since its release. In fact, I read this article in SEOWatch about the disavow tool. Since you clearly haven't read it, I'll copy and paste the relevant bits:
    Some are looking to toward the Disavow Links tool to bail them out.[...]I can say with certainty that the link disavow tool doesn't work. [...] Many were stunned, when their submission of files to the Disavow Links tool rendered well, nothing.

    In one recent test, Cyrus Shepherd disavowed every link to his website and saw no effect

    [...]

    One thing that we do know for certain is that Google frowns upon the frivolous use of the tool.
    So good luck with that.

    And for the final time: The "spam" in question is a legitimate thread in a forum dedicated specifically to SEO. Your company (and/or its previous owners and/or a third party contracting firm and/or leprechauns or whoever else you want to blame) is being penalized for spamming such links all over the internet at some point in its past. However, this particular instance is ironically legitimate and not spam. Your company (and/or its previous owners, etc.) linked to its own website in a forum specifically dedicated to linking to external websites for analysis, discussion, etc.

    Looking forward to your next reply.
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    you are allowing spam in your forum. Good luck.

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    • ManiacDan disagrees : I cannot believe that you do not understand something so simple
    • Skipt disagrees : moron
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    So, took me several minutes but I've read through the thread and can see no fault with the decision made.
    Originally Posted by Clean Up
    you are allowing spam in your forum. Good luck.
    What I feel needs be said here has already been by others in our moderation team; but let me restate this for you just so there's no ambiguity: What we are allowing is one link that is relevant in the SEO forum specifically for SEO discussion and critique. This is exactly the sort of topic for which the SEO forum was constructed.

    In any other forum, this would be prohibited; but again: The SEO forum is there specifically for this very reason.

    I don't understand why you feel we're allowing spam in here...?
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  21. Sarcky
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    After extensive discussion in the mod forum, the site's actual paid employee has decided to end the drama and simply remove the links to shut OP up. Going ahead and closing this thread to preserve it for posterity. OP, enjoy restoring the reputation of a spammer (regardless of your own personal definition of that term).
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