Page 2 - Really vague question..

>>of course nobody can help those who live in some of the southern states though
I take offense on that! Nuh, I dont I myself live (right now) in tampa bay FL, it is bad, but it is not *nearly* as bad as it used to be in miami. In Miami there is one official first language - and here's a hint for you - it is not english. Spanish all the way.

As to the spelling, one word - horrible. I mean, for native speaker, who has lived here his whole conscious live, to ask me how to spell one word or another is just plain disgrace. Good thing that this is only is South, during that couple weeks I spent in nyc and dc last month I ralized that I'm getting out of Fl as fast as I can. Heck, I already bought the tickets (departure date - July 5, if you want come visit me do that before independance day, we can go to disney or something )

On the serious note, however, I did notice increased number of threads/posts not following guidlines on this forum. Pretty much like it used to be in october or so last year, before "reform" by mods and senior members. Hence, my question, now when I see dumb or non-descriptive thread/post do I explain them or do I just ignore poor ignorant souls? I tried talk to couple guys on how not to post, but only got flamed and called names. Don't know if its worth it anymore.

yeah, i kinda noticed that too. IMO i think its not worth the effort. i just ignore threads with dumb/non-descriptive titles.

Take this one for example:

http://forums.devshed.com/showthrea...33999&forumid=1

A link is provided, and the link is to an example that works as it should, but consider:



That's it, no example coding or anything... we could assume that it hasn't been attempted and that this person is just looking for somebody to do the adaption for him/her.

Ignore them I guess, but I can't help thinking that these people may really need help.

Its best to ignore them i guess, thats wot i do.
Then again, it is quite scary when you do ure first post, maybe thats y some ppl are so shy they dont say anything.
But then maybe they just take advantage of us damn good programmers.

If you just ignore them, how will they know they've 'done something wrong'? Isn't it better to try and educate them into being 'good citizens'? If you ignore them, they might continue along the same path, or point their browser to another site using the same manners. If they continue their posting style here, sooner or later someone will let them know about it, but if they turn their heads elsewhere, is that a loss or not? And who's loss is it then, ours or theirs? It might be possible (and better) to turn them around...

Not implying that I'm god's best child here, but I say let the crusades against bad posters continue...

//NoXcuz

Well I think it depends on what kind of community you all want.

If you want an exclusive club, then I think it's okay to ignore them, or dismiss them with, "RTFM" (a poor answer in my opinion).

If you want to grow your community, then it would be cool to "nicely" point out to the posters to check the FAQ first, or a resource they can look at.

Not everybody who is new has the, "Read the manual, read the FAQ, use the Search function, spend a couple of hours working through the code, THEN ask your question, describing what you tried and your source code" thing down.

I know personally I have asked a question before, after checking the FAQ, and after using the Search function, and after pouring hours over the manual. Then I post my question, and I get, "you might want to check the manual."

I'm like, "well I wouldn't be asking if I hadn't had spent 8 hours with the damn manual!!!"

Obviously we don't have to spoon feed people, and I know alot of the guys on here have invested alot of time into their code, but I live by the code that the more you give, the more you receive.

I noticed too there is a double standard in the way *cough* *cough* females are given more help here as well.

Another answer I find annoying is:

"Yeah just go use google."

I absolutely agree on that freshments should recieve a somewhat friendly pointer to the manual/faq/search/etc if they do things wrong. But if they repeatedly do so, disregards friendly pointers or come here with a totally wrong attitude, I think it's ok to let them know...

I don't see this as an exclusive club, neither do I wish for it to be that way. Anybody wanting to participate in these forums should be able to do so. But for those who have spent some time here, I think it's reasonable to let them put up some 'demands' which lets the forums keep the high standard it actually has, compared to lots of other boards. Like seeing the same questions over and over again tends to letting people know that there is a search button here, or that without enough information about a problem, it's impossible to try and help out...

For anybody who has used the search button, it's kinda annoying to end up with 50 search results of which 25 contains titles like 'female newbie requests urgent help with easy problem.' Doesn't give you much info what it's all about, does it?
And the same thing goes for using the new threads feature...

If you have searched for answers and looked in the manual, it's probably best to say so when you post a question, and maybe even say what results you found/didn't find by doing that. Might avoid pointers to the manual that way...

If you spoon feed people, will they actually learn from it? In some occasions maybe, but I think it's often better to try and give suggestions and ideas about possible solutions than writing all code for them.

I wonder if the extra help given females has something to do with the fact that most visitors here seem to be male? Or am I wrong?

And what's wrong with google? It's an excellent resource for finding things out...

//NoXcuz

yeah I agree most repeat offenders should be given no slack and also it's important to maintain high standards.

I've seen many boards destroyed because there was no moderation, and it turns into a useless spamfest.

Actually I like google too, it's not an exaggeration to say it's changed my life. It renders all other search engines useless.

I just see some people overuse that as an answer.

Sometimes I go to a site and use their seach engine, and I don't find any useful results. Then I go out to google and use it instead, and it ends up finding a very useful link on the exact site I was just on, that the site-specific search engine didn't find!

WHOA! There are females here?? How did I miss that forum!?!?!

I think things are just fine the way they are. The moderation in the forums has helped a lot be being able to make a How To Post and FAQ sticky. Newbies are treated very well here as opposed to almost any other forum. Sure, we might make an example of one every now and then...but that's just to keep the peace and let the others know we're watching....

---John Holmes...

Possibly the need for a 'Females post here for a instantaneous reply' forum has come about.

I do have favourites I'd prefer to help before others, it's only natural. If you get help from somebody then you'll want to help back, or if somebody has the same kind of attitude/humor that I have then they will get a response. Also, they could have the same first name, surname, support the same team, live in the same area, have a good user ID. I don't know, but it doesn't simply go male/female, I'm more concieted than that.

As for the 'Go search google reply' There's nothing wrong with it. Or the 'read the manual' reply. If somebody asks a question that you can find the answer to on the first page of a google search or in an example in the manual then they should be directed to do so. Things like asking what 'a','r' and 'w' mean when using fopen() should be replied to with a prompt message to read the manual under 'filesystem functions.' Yes, 'RTFM' is inexcusable because it is:
a) abusive towards people, and
b) assumes knowledge of the term.
But neither should people be expected to copy&paste the manual examples because somebody cannot be bothered to read it for themselves, or are not as au fait at knowing where the descriptions of functions reside.

What we have here is a community that I believe is based on a 'giving help to people that help themselves' approach. If somebody appears to have had a good attempt, or shows willing to learn and understand the problem then they are more likely to recieve guidance and help. If somebody simply lists there code and says 'debug this' they will rightly be told where to stuff their code and light it.

Take this post for example:

http://forums.devshed.com/showthrea...34437&forumid=5

I think RTFM is an entirely appropriate answer, that's why I put it. I think it's only the second time I've ever used it as an answer. It just depends on the situation, but sometimes it is called for. If the person doesn't know what it means, oh well, maybe they won't come back. no loss here...

---John Holmes...