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  #16  
Old April 19th, 2008, 07:57 PM
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  #17  
Old April 21st, 2008, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axweildr
Okay, here we go again.

Class of Engineering students, early 90's, basically a good bunch with a few reprobates thrown in.

Some of the reprobates I never got to see, because they never turned up. Handed out an assignment to chart the mean, median and mode and plot a series of exam results, and to format the axes ... all the interesting stuff, and this was going to be pretty much all they were going to be marked on.

The assignments came in, I looked them over, and graded them, all except 2 which were due special attention, due to their similarity ... and then it was time to hand the assignments back.

A new face appeared in the class that day, and this new face was one of the similars, and he was sitting next to the other similar (one of the brightest in the class)... I handed the papers back and waited for the fun.

The guy who was always in class I gave 35, and the 'new' guy I gave 80, well it was correct , then the original guy comes to the top of the class demanding to know what the differences were between his and his compadre's assignments. At this point, I asked him to stand there while I looked them over, I said "They do look very similar don't they, as a matter of fact on close scrutiny they're identical, I'm going to have to change those marks, ... to zero". Naturally he went puce with being busted, and his buddy just threw his eyes up to the heavens.

I concluded with "this is an important life's lesson, ... don't f*ck with a f*cker", though I did submit both as pass marks, I'm not a total bastard ..
I had one like that.

We're standing around in this professor's office one day while she's grading papers from her Discrete Math I class. She picks up this one paper and then all of a sudden goes digging back through the stack. She compares these two papers for a minute then she hands them to me. I look and I see every single thing on the page down to the font, layout, paper type and printer ink is exactly the same. The only difference. I mean the only difference was the name.

So she's looking at us and she's completely flabergasted. I mean people work together on stuff (read cheat) all the time but usually they at least try to make it look different. She ended up deciding that since each of them did half the work, each could take half the grade.
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  #18  
Old April 21st, 2008, 03:04 PM
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Never let the cheats wear you down.

If collaboration is okay (and it isn't necessarily a Bad Thang), make that clear.

Virtually identical submissions should probably be treated as cause for failure. It takes a minimal amount of effort to phrase things in one's own words, even if the conclusions were arrived at in concert, in a spirit of cooperative help.

Strictly personal opinion, of course.
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crownjewel82 agrees: Working together is fine just so long as it doesn't involve a photocopier...
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  #19  
Old April 22nd, 2008, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sizablegrin
Never let the cheats wear you down.

If collaboration is okay (and it isn't necessarily a Bad Thang), make that clear.

Virtually identical submissions should probably be treated as cause for failure. It takes a minimal amount of effort to phrase things in one's own words, even if the conclusions were arrived at in concert, in a spirit of cooperative help.

Strictly personal opinion, of course.


yes.. my cs lecturer made it clear any plagiarism would result in fail.. not just that particular assignment but the entire year. Cheats would have to (attempt) to re-enroll the following year. He recounted one episode with a tearful girl -

"but but .. I would have passed even if I hadn't handed in the assignment at all!!"

yeah, that's right ... duh!
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  #20  
Old April 23rd, 2008, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathon
my cs lecturer made it clear any plagiarism would result in fail.. not just that particular assignment but the entire year.

When I was an undergraduate, in the '70s, a lot of my friends went to the University of Virginia. They had a clear and simple honor code. I'll paraphrase is as "A gentleman does not cheat, lie, or steal, or tolerate anyone who does"

This translated into a one strike and you are thrown out of the University, forever. They had serious Honor Court trials, due process, etc. but if you were found guilty of an honor code violation, you were thrown off campus, never to return.

It was a wonderful place. You could leave valuables, such as books, bicycles, cameras while you went off to play frisbee, and they would all be there.

I've heard rumours that they have weakened it in recent years, but don't know this for sure.

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  #21  
Old April 24th, 2008, 12:04 PM
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See that's beautiful. When I was in college there was always some teacher or administrator who would take pity on a student and the absolute most that would happen for anything would be they'd fail the class and take it again the next semester.

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  #22  
Old April 24th, 2008, 12:24 PM
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Those gutless professors and administrators are creating a moral hazard. By tolerating cheating with some light sentence, they are teaching that cheating, lying and stealing is acceptable.

You hear the term these days about letting the banks skip free from the horrible loans that they gave out -- let them free, and they will know that the government will bail them out when they make bad decisions.

The UVa approach was simple. Clear, unambiguous. Cheat and you are gone. Period. As a result, a few folks got thrown out of the University each year, and 99% of the folks did not cheat.

The statistics are that at least 40% of any university's incoming freshman class will not graduate. Its not clear that the cheaters would be the folks you want to hire or work with, so its hard to see that the UVa approach is somehow 'unfair'.

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  #23  
Old April 24th, 2008, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crownjewel82
See that's beautiful. When I was in college there was always some teacher or administrator who would take pity on a student and the absolute most that would happen for anything would be they'd fail the class and take it again the next semester.


Thats because repeating a class means you're more than likely put back a semester (or quarter), so thats another chunk of tuition money.
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  #24  
Old April 25th, 2008, 12:26 AM
Lux Perpetua Lux Perpetua is offline
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Quote:
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Anyone else have interesting stories about teaching programming?
I've been a TA for the past 3 years at the college level. I've only taught math classes, but one term I was the TA for a class on numerical analysis of differential equations, which of course involved a lot of programming. I didn't do a lot of teaching, exactly, but I did have office hours in which students came in with questions and buggy code (usually on paper). :-)

Students were allowed to use any programming language they wanted. Matlab and its various knockoffs were by far the most popular (naturally), but I also saw:

-Maple
-Mathematica
-C
-C++
-Python (with numpy and scipy)
-PHP

Yes, PHP. For numerical analysis. I only got PHP scripts from one student, though, and they were usually actually pretty well structured and readable. I was a bit surprised (but not too unhappy) that nobody gave me Fortran programs.

Unfortunately, there was no electronic submission system, so I never got to run students' code to see if it really worked except when they (very occasionally) sent me their buggy code via email to debug. Grading consisted of checking the submitted output to see if it was plausible and reading the code to find bugs. Thankfully, in most cases, it was pretty hard to produce correct output from a buggy program, so it wasn't too hard to separate the correct programs from the buggy ones.

I thought the code we get here at Dev Shed was ugly...until that class. I got everything from C programs consisting of a single flat unindented main() function with a few macros thrown in, to Matlab scripts with expressions spanning four or more lines with no white space whatsoever. On occasions like that, if the code wasn't producing the right output, I just circled the offending expression and wrote a note to the effect of "I'm not debugging this; find the problem yourself."

To be fair, I did get other programs that were clean and well thought-out.

The worst and most annoying situation was when a student would submit code along with output that I would eventually realize could not have been generated by the program submitted. That was the worst because I would pore through the entire program searching for the bug before realizing that there might not even be one!

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