Name servers based on my domain name

Here's my situation:

I have a domain, call it example.com, registered with Tucows and www.example.com hosted by company ABC. I just signed up for a hosting account with company XYZ and there are two name servers included with the account, which I designated as ns3.example.com and ns4.example.com. There is also a hostname, www2.example.com, setup at XYZ. I had the admin at ABC add an A record to the DNS records for www2.example.com.

The new name servers, ns3 and ns4, will be used for sites hosted with company XYZ, but not for example.com itself.

My original thought was that I would need the admin at ABC to add A records for ns3 and ns4, but then I was instructed to set that up with the registrar, which I did (last Thursday or Friday). However, when I query for DNS records for ns3.example.com or ns4.example.com, I get nothing.

What do I actually need to do to get this to work? Is the only point of configuring these name servers with the registrar so that you can use them for the domain itself?

Sorry if my description was confusing, but I'll be happy to clarify anything.

all this abstraction is befuddling my brain. Please at least say what zone you own, so that I can check it out for myself to actually SEE what you're talking about.

And the references about your hosts is too vague as well. At first I thought ABC was a webhost (how could I know any better when it's just called ABC?) since you referred to it hosting a WWW domain. DNS servers host entire zones, or subdomains in the case of dynamic IP services. Basically, I'm all screwed up. Keep literal and then I'll help ya out.

Sorry to confuse you. It really is a simple question and literals are not necessary.

Allow me to explain:

There are three entities involved here: the domain name registrar, which I will refer to as the "registrar", and two web hosting companies, which I'll refer to as "A" and "B".

A domain name, which I'll call "example.com", is registered with the registrar.

The DNS zone for example.com is on two name servers with hostnames not based on the domain name, controlled by web hosting company A.

Web hosting company B is providing two name servers which will be known as ns3.example.com and ns4.example.com and will provide service for domains not based on example.com. B has completed their part of the configuration and has provided the IP addresses of the name servers.

My original thought was that I would need to get A to add address records for ns3.example.com and ns4.example.com to the example.com zone. Then I was instructed to configure those hostnames / IP addresses as name servers with the registrar, which I did, but which is not causing ns3.example.com and ns4.example.com to resolve. That is, designate them as name servers, not set them up as THE name servers for example.com.

My thought at this point is that perhaps configuring those name servers with the registrar is only necessary if they are to provide service for the base domain name, and that my original idea about how to do this was correct.

What do you say?

(Thanks, appreciate your posting)

Please read this:

http://homepages.tesco.net/~J.deBoy...r-dns-data.html

OK, thanks, but it didn't really answer my question!

Up to you but I imagine if you don't post any useful information you won't get any help here.

JMM, if there is something sensitive found at the websites relating to top secret zone file Z107 alpha based at location code L169a and phase 2 file plan Z219 kappa based at location code L336b masterminded by agent 013r, then feel free to PM me specifics and I'll help you discretely if necessary after this informative post.

excuse the fecetiousness....

There is only 2 ways where name servers are effective. They may be registered like your ns1 and ns2 currently is at host A. This way they are used - and ONLY these servers are used - to find information on this zone. Since you say host B has different domains that you ONLY want hosted at this server, you are setting up a sub zone essentially. Here's a diagram:

Registrar
ns1.example.com (127.0.0.1)
ns2.example.com (127.0.0.2)

Host [example.com]
@ SOA Record
@ NS ns1
@ NS ns2
ns1 A 127.0.0.1
ns2 A 127.0.0.2
www A 192.168.0.1
sub NS ns1.sub
sub NS ns2.sub
ns1.sub A 127.0.0.3 (glue record)
ns2.sub A 127.0.0.4 (glue record)

Host [sub.example.com]
@ SOA Record
@ NS ns1
@ NS ns2
ns1 A 127.0.0.3
ns2 A 127.0.0.4
www A 192.168.0.2

queries headed for www.sub.example.com would first query your ns1.example.com and ns2.example.com domains. However, all xxx.sub.example.com queries will be REFERRED (returns non-authoritative response) by your servers to ns1.sub.example.com and ns2.sub.example.com.

I hope this is what you were looking for.

If posting my actual addresses is a condition of any particular individual assisting me then, regretfully, I'll have to do without their assistance. Otherwise, you can be certain that I am appreciative of your help.


It's not quite what you described, it's more like this:

Registrar
domain name: example.com

authoritative name servers
ns1.whatever.com (127.0.0.1)
blah.something.com (127.0.0.2)

"created" name servers based on the domain name (NOT set up as authoritative name servers for example.com):
ns3.example.com ##.##.##.140
ns4.example.com ##.##.##.142



Host [example.com]
example.com IN NS ns1.whatever.com
example.com IN NS blah.something.com

sub.example.com IN A ###.###.###.###



So, ns1.whatever.com and blah.something.com will answer DNS queries for anything based on example.com. In addition to that, I want to be able to configure ns3.example.com and ns4.example.com as the name servers for other, unrelated domains. The question at this point is whether that can be accomplished by "creating" the name servers with the registrar, or by adding A records to the example.com zone. There is no zone for sub.example.com.

Thanks, this is a big help.

giving out domain names and host names is not a prerequisite to me helping anybody. It just annoys me, and limits my ability to help. It is limited to the questioner's ability to express their problem and their thoroughness in describing that problem. In many cases they're tieing my hands behind my back and I'm unable to help cause the number of things that may have gone wrong (or the number of interpretations to the meaning of their question) are too many to enumerate. This last time you expressed yourself the best so far, and I think I'm clued into what you're asking. It is probably cause of your rough diagram. A tip for asking future help... most people are born visually oriented. This is why charts and diagrams are so popular. So give them something to look at, rather than abstract concepts to think upon. Ah... I'm long winded...

My previous diagram was presented as a solution to a problem I incorrectly extrapolated from your question. I knew it was not your setup. However, building off of what you gave, here's what I consider your setup to be. This way you can tell me if I'm right or wrong. It is, by all purposes that I can tell, unnecessary to make this odd setup, but doable.

registrar [example.com]
ns1.example.com (127.0.0.1)
ns2.example.com (127.0.0.2)

host (127.0.0.1 & 127.0.0.2) [example.com]
@ SOA Record
@ NS ns1
@ NS ns2
www A 192.168.0.1
ns3 A 127.0.0.3
ns4 A 127.0.0.4

registrar [something.com]
ns3.example.com (127.0.0.3)
ns4.example.com (127.0.0.4)

host (127.0.0.3 & 127.0.0.4) [something.com]
@ SOA Record
@ NS ns3.example.com.
@ NS ns4.example.com.
www A 192.168.0.2

If a setup like this is what you're wanting to do, and wanting to confirm as legal, then yes, it is. A more traditional approach is to have the ns3 and ns4 domains resolved by the something.com zone rather than the example.com zone.

by unrelated domains, I previously thought they were unrelated domains under the SAME zone. Now I think you mean unrelated zones. When you mean zone, use that word, instead of domain.

I get your point, and I knew it before I posted, and I knew people would complain about it, but I posted what I wanted to post. You're right about the visual element.

That's still not quite my situation, which may be unusual, but is not unnecessary. Part of the problem we're having communicating is that you're expressing things in some syntax for the zone files, with which I am not familiar (so I may have something that doesn't make sense below -- bear with me). I will not actually be modifying the zone files, but I understand the concept of the records that are there. More like this:

registrar [example.com]
ns1.someotherdomain.com (127.0.0.1)
ns2.someotherdomain.com (127.0.0.2)

host (127.0.0.1 & 127.0.0.2) [example.com]
@ SOA Record
@ NS ns1.someotherdomain.com.
@ NS ns2.someotherdomain.com.
www A 192.168.0.1
#
# This is the part I am wondering if I need
ns3 A 127.0.0.3
ns4 A 127.0.0.4


registrar [anything.com]
ns3.example.com (127.0.0.3)
ns4.example.com (127.0.0.4)

host (127.0.0.3 & 127.0.0.4) [anything.com]
@ SOA Record
@ NS ns3.example.com.
@ NS ns4.example.com.
www A 192.168.0.2


P.S. at the moment, if I input "ns3.example.com" and query for a Nameserver (sic) through http://www.verisign-grs.com/cgi-bin/whois, I get this (with the correct IP address):
Server Name: NS3.EXAMPLE.COM
IP Address: ##.##.##.###
Registrar: TUCOWS, INC.
Whois Server: whois.opensrs.net
Referral URL: http://www.opensrs.org

But, if I do a DNS lookup on ns3.example.com I get nothing.

your diagram is different, but expresses the same concepts. And your diagram works.

Now as for why your query is not working, I have no clue. This is where there's too many things that could possibly go wrong. So the theory is good, the implementation went wrong. Perhaps you will learn more about your DNS setup by using my script - DNS Crawler - found in my signature as a link. Unfurtunately, it requires some knowledge of how the DNS system works. The advantage is that it hides less from you about how a domain is resolved and has english error messages about what went wrong, and context links to describe different bits of information.

One warning though, I can see all queries performed on my script. I've found that watching people making queries on my script has led me to discover problems with their setups and how they made their queries.

So if you want to risk that I'd be able to identify who you are in my logs, and therefor have access to the knowledge of your domains do the following:

step 1) submit this query
Server = a.root-servers.net
Type=ANY
Name=example.com (the equivilent)
Local Recursion = UNchecked
Recursion Desired = UNchecked

You will get a set of referal servers, and a NON-authoritative response.

step 2) click on a purple link to take a referal (any will do).

You will get either a set of referal servers, OR, a list of the authoritative servers for your domain, in a NON-authoritative response. If they are your servers, make sure that the server names are correct in the AUTHORITY section, and the IP's are correct for those domains in the ADDITIONAL section.

step 3) click on another purple link.

If the response was non-authoritative, repeat step 2.
If the response is authoritative, then you've just queried one of the host servers for example.com for ANY record at all under the root domain. One of them should be an SOA record. IF your host supports zone transfers, clicking on the RED link will show you the entire zone's contents. Otherwise, you'll get a refused message. There is ways to further test for a zone transfer, but that gets too complicated to describe.

Repeat this process for the second zone you have registered to determine if the proper authoritative servers are set for it as well. Also, clicking on a dark blue link will resolve it to an IP for you.

Welp, there you have it. Either I can't help you, my hands are tied. Or you tell me the domains and I can tell you what's up with them. Or you can take my instructions to test for yourself using my script, and risk me finding out about your domains. Or somehow translate my instructions for use on a different utility to assess what is wrong for yourself.

I contacted technical support at the registrar, here is a transcript:




Would you agree with that conclusion?

What he told you to do is exactly as you outlined in the diagram - and exactly what I outlined in the diagram. Put the ns3/ns4 A records under the example.com zone file, and register them for that other zone. He just told you that I'm right.

Yes, but notice that in my diagram I inlcuded a comment: "This is the part I am wondering if I need".

I just don't understand what the significance of registering the name servers with the registrar is.