Class system Vs Skill sytstem (please read the thread before voting)

Evening everybody,

This is probably news to a lot of you right now but we at Dreamers Software are working on a MMOR. The game [codenamed Benign] is currently in the design phase, so we're thinking about what features we should include to make our users the happiest. One design question in particular seems to be rather controversial:

Should we integrate a strict class system, or should we let our users make there own rules. There are of course advantages to both approaches.

I want to quickly address the two ideas in turn. When I'm done please vote above. Feel free to post any comments and or questions you might have.


"The class system works in a very unique way different from all others. I will try explain it short and simple. There are 10 classes and you get to pick any combination of 4 of these classes to combine them into one, meaning each class makes up 25% of you character's final class. Oh ya you can also pick the same class multiple times (An example of this is picking a warrior 3 times so that you will be 75% warrior). The reason for making yourself a class multiple times because say you have a 75% healer and a 25% healer. Well the 75% healer is gonna heal 3x better then the 25% healer. This makes just about everyone unique. This is makes it where a person can't be the best Healer/Fighter UNLESS they have skilled fingers. What I mean by this is if you want to be the best warrior but your only 50% warrior you can still be the best but your gonna have to make up for it with quick fingers and good fighting strategies. Now everyone make the right choice by voting for this." - DunkOrSlam.


Where I think the idea that Dunk presented above is just fine, I and some others would prefer that we do something a little different and provide a rich, free world for our characters too inhabit.

This world would be without any predefined restrictions on our players; if you make a choice you can make it again; if you walk one path you may take it again any number of ways. In essence we would like to take some of the best qualities from our world and transplant them.

Let me explain what this would mean in the context of the system above.

Instead of choosing the path you'd like to take when you set up your character as in other games, you would start the game by choosing a number of a growing selection of skills. These skills can be shared with others for free or in exchange for some service. The choice is yours!

Because new users will naturally have a larger number of valuable skills to choose from they have an instant advantage, and something useful they can contribute to the world immediately. A user may for instance choose to learn how to design new buildings, work stone and construct new structures.

Upon entering the game they could immediately begin constructing a village all of there own, walls, houses and all! Alternatively they could meet with other players to chat and or to learn what they have to teach.

The best thing about this system is that anyone can pursue any path they like at any point. If you start off as a warrior you can later walk the path of an architect, holy man or a simple farmer etc.

But, it takes time to learn the ins and outs of each new skill you gather. As in life the more you practice something the better you get, so keep learning, don't become out of practice. It's up to you to balance your skills and live up to your full potential.

In a living world with a really open community the sky's the limit, and the possibilities endless (more or less).

We are committed to providing an ever changing world for our users to explore. I know which world I'd like to explore but what about you?


Please take a second or two to consider the options before voting.


Kind regards,

Mark.

Sounds cool. I like most RPGs MMOPRXYZ (whatevers ) and I've played Diabllo 2 thru Titan Quest, and what I've found from most of them, they aren't as divese as I would like them to be. I really prefer not having any set class, but being able to branch out to any class I like. (thus I voted for free)

One of the games that did do this was Dungeon Siege (which I'm getting back into with the expansion) but the problem with that game is the replabliity is quite low IMO.

I do want to see more good games come out, and I'm quite happy with the way it's been going as the more that are made the closer they come to the perfect RPG/MMOPG for me.

I'm a little confused about the differences between the systems. Let me see if i have this straight:

the first one you choose what kinda class you are, warrior, healer, magician, builder, miner, baker? and the like. and you can be a combination of the bunch. How would one advance in a system like this?

the 2nd one you choose from a set of skills to start off with, building, healing, sword play, archery? and one aquires new skills and enhances there skills by learning from other players?

am i even close? or did i completely misunderstand?

pumpkin_head: In a Strict class system, you are limited to one area of training, or a limited amount of training in more than one area of training. So, you may choose to be a warrior. As a warrior, you may be more skilled with the sword, but when it comes to spells, you either can't do spells at all or your skills in the area of magic are very minimal.

In a Free class system, anyone can learn anything and as much as they like. So, there is no warrior, mage, ranger, whatever, etc. You are just you, and you can learn all that you like and as much of it as you like.

But, this thread wasn't just about class systems. It was about the world you play in; your environment. Whether or not your environment should be strict or free. Part of the environment being strict would include having a strict class system, part of the environment being free would include having a free class system. There are other aspects to a free world and a strict world though. For instance, building villages on your own as netytan had mentioned. A free world would allow this, a strict world would not. In a strict world, you would be confined to certain areas, you have to follow everything we created according to how we created it (we meaning the programmers of the game). In a free world, you can create villages, make things the way you want it, etc. In a free world the possibilites are endless.

ahhhh, i understand now! You should definitely go that route.

Freedom is what makes good games great.

I think that an idea class system is the free one, sort of in the way that Ultima Online approached it, but alot more free.

In Ultima Online you choose a class and from there you can go to different hierarchys(or however you spell it). However, I think you should start as everything, and the game engine should decide how to classify you depending on which skills you have. So if you have greater skills in magic than on fighting, it's going to define you as a mage, but you could always go a different way and take up fighting. And I think that's really realistic(speaking in a fantasy world).

This post probably makes no sense because it's very late and I must sleep. I apologize in advance.

There is another alternative here (probably more than one). Using skills as a base to classes. A set of skills and some kind of level in them will grant the user acces to a class and some bonuses for that class. This can be applied so that avatars may have more than one class and have fewer levels in each class. Like the above example in a reverse way and the freedom to choose classes whenever the chance presents itself.

(I voted free, because that's what I like about rpg's, if it isn't a rpg you are making, it should be restricted.)

There is also a new idea I have heard about a few times. It’s called the “MVS” or multi variable system. Instead of having the same classes, you have the option to select several factors that makes your character’s “class”.
Example:
You will receive skills from your Race, your Fighting Style, you Affiliation, at an equal rate. L1 you get a skill from your race, L2 you get one from your fighting style, L3 you get one from your affiliation, L4 from Race, L5 Fighting Style, L6 Affiliation. (So on and so forth) It’s a fairly new idea, not sure if there are any games out there but my design team and myself were throwing the idea around between each other a while back and I liked the idea a lot. That is a really small sample, but you can get a near endless number of “classes” from this.

As an avid MMO Gamer (see my X-Fire siggy? I Only run it about 1/5 - 1/10 of the time I actually play games), I would have to say the free one is obviously more enticing. I know your explanation of the class system was rather rough, but in 99% of MMOs, HYBRID = WEAK. IMO, doing a system like that would result in people really screwing up their class build, and it would take A LOT of tweaking, as every other play would claim they were nurfed. The open idea also sounds great, but I would suggest stats as well as as skills. You didn't even mention stats. Would they also be "free range", 100% customizable, partially customizable, or non-existent? Are you making the game to have an RPG theme, because from your description, it sounds like you don't want just another grindfest? The more open one would be awesome for a RPG MMOG, it would be original, and I believe it would be fun. Oh yah, hook me up as an alpha tester pretty please =D

yes, just look at world of warcraft, and you see how great hybrid class is, not to mention all the talk about nerfing

would say the problem with nerfing-tank and weakness is most visible when people can fight each other.

as a free world does sounds really nice i picked that option myself

I would say more freedom == more opportunities for players. So I would favor the free system - even more if it's MMOR.

Anyway is that really a question (Strict vs Free) ? I can't imagine that somebody will produce something that has really STRICT class system. I mean, we don't play Eye of the Beholder today (my favourite DOS rpg...), where fighters don't get any new skill / perks. More precisely even if you go with strict system there will always be (at least) different paths for playing a class. But if you create a lot of paths for each class and even allow them to cross at some point ... do you still have strict class system?