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  #1  
Old May 17th, 2009, 08:07 AM
Buzzy661 Buzzy661 is offline
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Talking Create my own programming language

I started reading "The Programming Language Wiki" and i read First Steps and it says you need to have a game programming language and game engine.

I want to know how to make my own game engine and my own game programming language, but if someone gives my any help of making my own programming language or game engine, i can proceed on reading!

What program could make my own program language, like C++ or vb but i want to make my own!

Please, i need help!

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  #2  
Old May 18th, 2009, 03:01 AM
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Hugh of Borg Hugh of Borg is offline
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Since you insist on trying this I'll give you small overview... I'm a little rusty on the subject so maybe someone else can add corrections/additions to what I'm saying...

First you need to define your language syntax. This means you define operators for addition, subtraction etc, specify how you write and call methods, how loops and if's look or how you work with variables. You decide if you operators have different priority (* before +) or not (you have to group operations with parentheses). Are there classes and interfaces? How is inheritance defined? What types are there? Strong-typed like C or loosely typed like PHP? Do you need to declare variables in order to use them (C) or can you create them adhoc (PHP)? How do comments look? How do you create and destroy objects? How do you reference and call external libraries? And so on...

Then you need to bring that into a structured form from which you can start producing a parser. The EBNF is commonly used for that.
Code:
An example for some simple computations could look like:

Expr = Mult , { ( "+" | "-" ),  Mult }
Mult = Num , { ( "*" | "/" ),  Num }
Num = ("(" , Expr, ")" ) | ( DigitNZ , {Digit} )
Digit = DigitNZ | "0"
DigitNZ = "1" | "2" | "3" | "4" | "5" | "6" | "7" | "8" | "9"


When you have that you need to write a scanner/tokenizer that takes a source code and converts a the stream of characters into a stream of syntax objects:
KEYWORD_IF, IDENTIFIER('strlen'), OPERATOR('('), LITERAL_STRING('foo'), OPERATOR(')'), OPERATOR('>'), LITERAL_INT('0'), KEYWORD_THEN, KEYWORD_ENDIF

Then you can use your scanner/tokenizer to feed a parser that in a first version just checks if your program is syntactically correct. In a second version you'll have to improve the parser to build a syntax tree.
Code:
Using the above EBNF the expression "(0 - 12) * 5 + 1" would result in the following tree:

Expr ? + ?
+-Mult ? * ?
|  +- Num ( ? )
|  |  +- Expr ? - ?
|  |     +- "0"
|  |     +- "12"
|  +- "5"
+- "1"


Then as a last step you need to write either a compiler or an interpreter. An interpreter takes your syntax tree and executes it step by step. This is probably the simpler option but will not perform as well as a compiled program. The other option would be to write a compiler that takes the syntax tree and converts that into a windows executable.

-------------------------------------------------------------

If you really want to try this i strongly suggest you first try to implement the simple computation example of mine to get a glimpse of what's ahead of you. If you manage to do that you can start to expand your language with additional operators then variables, flow control statements etc...
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Last edited by Hugh of Borg : May 18th, 2009 at 08:48 AM.

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  #3  
Old May 18th, 2009, 04:51 AM
Buzzy661 Buzzy661 is offline
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OK, what program could you use to make your own operators such as:

Quote:
+
-
/
*
if
then
else

and so on and convert it into your script..

..and for the compilier, do I need to design a compiler using vb2008? If so, i need help on making a compilier...

Can someone please tell me any program that could make your operators work for your own game programming language, AND Help for vb on making my own compilier, please??

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  #4  
Old May 18th, 2009, 06:51 AM
Oler1s Oler1s is offline
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Quote:
OK, what program could you use to make your own operators such as:
You don't. Let me give you a comparison. Let's say, you looked at English, and French, and Spanish, and said, I want to make a new language.

And you said, how can I create a word that means "house". It's like you think that the languages are all about the vocabulary. It's true that you are going to have vocabulary as part of the language, but what's really interesting is the grammar. Do you remember concepts like nouns, adjectives, and verbs? The English language has certain grammar rules. It is defined by the grammar, and the vocabulary you use falls into some aspect of that grammar.

So when you talk about implementing operators in a programming language, what you really need to be thinking is the grammatical equivalent of an operator. What is the grammar of your language? How do operators fall into play? It's not necessarily as simple as hardcoding it, by the way.

Quote:
..and for the compilier, do I need to design a compiler using vb2008? If so, i need help on making a compilier...
Of course you need help on making a compiler. Certainly, you don't seem to understand what you are dealing with yourself. If you really are into this stuff, consider getting the Dragon Book. This is the kind of material you need to work through.
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Want better answers? Tell us what you Googled for and what steps you took to answer your own question.

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  #5  
Old May 18th, 2009, 06:34 PM
Buzzy661 Buzzy661 is offline
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About creating your language and making up a new identifier like "House" or another identifier replacing other ones. How can you do that, do you just use vb6C++ or do i need some sort of code to input into notepad??

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Old May 18th, 2009, 09:20 PM
Oler1s Oler1s is offline
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Quote:
How can you do that
To create your own language. Get a pen. Get paper. Write down the grammar. You create a language by describing it with a pen and paper standard.

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  #7  
Old May 19th, 2009, 01:21 AM
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Hugh of Borg Hugh of Borg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzy661
About creating your language and making up a new identifier like "House" or another identifier replacing other ones. How can you do that, do you just use vb6C++ or do i need some sort of code to input into notepad??
Source code can be written in any kind of text editor. There's no magical power that requires you to use Visual Studio or Eclipse. Source code is nothing more than text. The only thing you need to make it into a program is a compiler and it doesn't care if you used a 70 KB notepad or a 3 GB Visual Studio to write the source code.

Your question tells me that you didn't quite understand what Oler1s tried to say. To make a computer understand a language it has to follow very clear and specific rules. Humans are pretty good at interpreting sentences even broken very it much is if.

Computers require any sentence to follow some clear pattern - the syntax. While in English you can say "What is the time?" or "What time is it?" or "Yo man! *points to wrist*" to inquire about the time a computer is less flexible.

That's the heart of a language - natural or programming language. You first need to decide on the pattern that form a sentence. When you've done that you already have a programming language. But it's still empty. Before you can write any kind of literature (programs) with it you need a vocabulary (an API). You need to create words (classes, interfaces, enumerations, etc) before you can write a novel. In time others might start to use your language and find that it lacks some words so they create them (write additional classes).

So first you need to create the syntax like i told you in my first post here.

Only after you completed the compiler you can start building the API (the vocabulary) by creating standard classes to work with.

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Old May 19th, 2009, 03:41 AM
Buzzy661 Buzzy661 is offline
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Red face

If I am going to make my programming language, what code things am I suppose to write in my text editor like special identifiers or do I just write:

Code:
"
'
?
+
-
Hello
""


And any other identifiers i need in code.

Also about the compilier, if I make it my self to make it compile the text above, well what scripting stuff do you need to make a compilier for visual studio 2008 (visual basic). Need tips for DRAGON BOOK)):

please help!

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  #9  
Old May 19th, 2009, 03:50 AM
Buzzy661 Buzzy661 is offline
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Quote:
If you really are into this stuff, consider getting the Dragon Book.


Is there any vb2008 tutorials here?

Quote:
When you have that you need to write a scanner/tokenizer that takes a source code and converts a the stream of characters into a stream of syntax objects:
KEYWORD_IF, IDENTIFIER('strlen'), OPERATOR('('), LITERAL_STRING('foo'), OPERATOR(')'), OPERATOR('>'), LITERAL_INT('0'), KEYWORD_THEN, KEYWORD_ENDIF


Can someone list me all variables and identifiers to convert to my own identifier?

Also do i need to write it like this:

Quote:
KEYWORD_IF, identifier "If"
KEYWORD_THEN, identifier "Then"
KEYWORD_END, identifier "End If"


But if i write it like this:

Quote:
KEYWORD_IF, identifier "Hello"
KEYWORD_THEN, identifier "Next"
KEYWORD_END, identifier "Eliminate"

And would it appear like this in the code
Instead of

If ........ Then
....
End If

Replaced by

Hello........Next
...
Eliminate

??? Will it actully replace those identifiers?


What code are you suppose to input into my text editor if i make up a code?

please

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  #10  
Old May 19th, 2009, 03:55 AM
Buzzy661 Buzzy661 is offline
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About the
Quote:
Dragon Book
What chapter are you suppose to find the scripting for vb2008?

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  #11  
Old May 19th, 2009, 05:58 AM
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Hugh of Borg Hugh of Borg is offline
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Quote:
When you have that you need to write a scanner/tokenizer that takes a source code and converts a the stream of characters into a stream of syntax objects:
KEYWORD_IF, IDENTIFIER('strlen'), OPERATOR('('), LITERAL_STRING('foo'), OPERATOR(')'), OPERATOR('>'), LITERAL_INT('0'), KEYWORD_THEN, KEYWORD_ENDIF

This was just a highly simplified illustration on what a tokenizer does... There's a lot more to it in practice.

But alright. I'm gonna dig up my old CS stuff when I get home and provide you with a small challenge. If you manage to do that we'll see how to proceed from there.

As a first thing I'd like you to the following things:
  1. Post why you want to create your own programming language.
  2. Post what you want your language for and how it will be different from what's already out there.
  3. Post a small example of how code in your programming language should look. Try to include a number of different things (like variables, objects, array, computations, ifs, loops, etc) in your example if it's supposed to produce output post that too.

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Old May 21st, 2009, 07:20 PM
Buzzy661 Buzzy661 is offline
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Talking

Quote:
1. Post why you want to create your own programming language.

So I could use my own programming language to create my Game Engine and then I could make my 2d and 3d games.
Quote:
2. Post what you want your language for and how it will be different from what's already out there.

Other languages like vbC++ or python ok but I decide to make my own programming language so I could understand it easier for my scripting.
Quote:
3. Post a small example of how code in your programming language should look. Try to include a number of different things (like variables, objects, array, computations, ifs, loops, etc) in your example if it's supposed to produce output post that too.

Ok, I'll show you the codes:

Code:
Comments look like:
//
Example:

\\This is an example code of a comment.

Math signs look like:

+, -, \ (divide), *(multiply), ~ (Round-up answer)
They will appear blue text
Example:

5 + 4  \ 3

On the code the answer will be 3.

IF you round your answer:

5.4 +4.91 ~ (1)

Your answer will be 10.31 but the rounding to 1 decimal will make it 10.3.

~ = round-up
(1) = round decimals

If you wanted to define text:

Integer as [test_text]

then you can input without errors:

test_text = 

Adding a word like "Interger" and the string [Your_string] will define your word.

Showing message boxes:

ShowMsgbox("Your text here", ButtonsOKCancel, Exclamation, "Msgbox test" -noclosebutton)

Parameters (special):
The - define the parameter such as for msgboxes:

-noclosebutton
-opaquebox #
-showhelpbutton
-addbutton, "Testtext", [TEST01]
TEST01 = Code

Starting a code:
Start {
Ending a code:
End }

If's, thens, ends, else

If <ADDTEXT> Then
<ADDTEXT>
Else
<ADDTEXT>
End If

the <ADDTEXT> areas are where you add your txt.

If you want a word to be nothing you just input:
Void

The use of OR:

<ADDTEXT> or <ADDTEXT>

Running applications, including files:

Run "\MYAPP.exe" or Run "$GAMEDIR\MyApp.exe"

Include Test.bzc

The BZC files are the script file extension.
You can also include files in the same folder as the code:

Include Test01.bzc

Or

Include Folder01\Test02.bzc

The "print" function:

Print "123"

Color function:

ColorRed, ColorBlue or

Color0, 0, 0, 0 (ColorRed, Green, Blue, Alpha)

Loops:
Loops=repeats
Example:

ShowMsgbox("Test") Loop [U]
U = If file("Test.txt") *exists

(don't know much about loops)

Files existing

If "Text1.txt" exists Then
	<ADDTEXT>
Else
	ShowMsgbox("Test")
End If

Eliminating/Adding objects:

Eliminate object.test
Add object.test at position(X,Y,Z)

Object properties:

Example: pressbutton

Pressbutton01.Text ("Pressbutton")

Output a file:

outputfile > ("\$APPDIR\", "Test", *.txt)

Output folder, name and extension. Many more codes.


In game code:

Code:
Showing a message when picked up item (medikit)
Item.medikit.pickup {
Print("You picked up a medikit")
AddPlayerHealth "25"
PickupSound("\Sounds\Items\MediPickup25.wav")

That is just an simple medi-kit pickup.
}

Some Variables:

AddPlayerHealth #
AddPlayerArmor #
AddPlayerAmmo #

# = Enter a value


Thats all.
--These codes might change...

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  #13  
Old May 21st, 2009, 07:26 PM
Buzzy661 Buzzy661 is offline
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And for arrays, loops, and many others i need to learn a bit more about them before i can convert them into code!

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Old May 22nd, 2009, 07:43 AM
Buzzy661 Buzzy661 is offline
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ok. All i just need is a list of all the keywords that you input into a text editor and a compilier.

Please, i need all of the keywords like:

Code:
Expr = Mult , { ( "+" | "-" ),  Mult }
Mult = Num , { ( "*" | "/" ),  Num }
Num = ("(" , Expr, ")" ) | ( DigitNZ , {Digit} )
Digit = DigitNZ | "0"
DigitNZ = "1" | "2" | "3" | "4" | "5" | "6" | "7" | "8" | "9"


I just wand all of the keywords, please?

Also:
Code:
When you have that you need to write a scanner/tokenizer that takes a source code and converts a the stream of characters into a stream of syntax objects:


Where are you suppose to find a scanner/tokenizer or do i just make it my self with some help.

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Old May 22nd, 2009, 07:49 AM
Buzzy661 Buzzy661 is offline
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Quote:
To create your own language. Get a pen. Get paper. Write down the grammar. You create a language by describing it with a pen and paper standard.


Ok, I did that.
What do I need to do now?

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