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    Originally Posted by xlordt
    Yes i agree, i have seened it done for $150.00 the full version clone of osc, but.. its security flaw's was really out of controll.. that customer then hade to find someone to path the script up ( ME ) i asked for $300.00 because i hate reading someone else codes.. plus the coding still was really ugly, and he sais "What!! But i paid $150.00 for this.. how can you ask for more?" So i told him and explained to him why... yet he wanted it done for $100.00
    Sadly that kind of attitude is quite common. I've had something similar from the client I'm working for now. Although the project itself paid quite well initially (quoted a price of 1500 - approx $2500) the client has continuously changed the spec to such a degree that I've had to change it from a PHP/MySQL site to an ASP.NET/MSSQL site. Of course he expects to have to pay the same amount for it ... but I've already told him it'll cost another 700 on completion. Haven't been paid at all for this project for 12 months.

    The only reason I've agreed to do it his way is that he wants more sites done later. But next time I'm going to make it clear that I'll expect the specifications to be finalised at the outset.

    He's been surprised at the length of time it's taken. Unfortunately that's the attitude of someone who hasn't a clue how much work is involved ... particularly when virtually an entire site is written twice. Perhaps we're not getting that message across? I doubt we'll ever get the message across while we keep bidding on such low-paid projects as you find on the freelancing sites.
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    Originally Posted by tickled_pink
    Sadly that kind of attitude is quite common. I've had something similar from the client I'm working for now. Although the project itself paid quite well initially (quoted a price of 1500 - approx $2500) the client has continuously changed the spec to such a degree that I've had to change it from a PHP/MySQL site to an ASP.NET/MSSQL site. Of course he expects to have to pay the same amount for it ... but I've already told him it'll cost another 700 on completion. Haven't been paid at all for this project for 12 months.

    The only reason I've agreed to do it his way is that he wants more sites done later. But next time I'm going to make it clear that I'll expect the specifications to be finalised at the outset.

    He's been surprised at the length of time it's taken. Unfortunately that's the attitude of someone who hasn't a clue how much work is involved ... particularly when virtually an entire site is written twice. Perhaps we're not getting that message across? I doubt we'll ever get the message across while we keep bidding on such low-paid projects as you find on the freelancing sites.
    Dont you just hate it when they say "Its easy to do, and fast" though i still wonder.. why dont they do it them selfs.
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    Originally Posted by tickled_pink
    I don't know about anyone else here but my own preference would be for a subscription-only service ... with low monthly subscription rates of around $5 per month.
    Yes, that would be a nice solution. The problem with the bigger sites now is the subscription they charge is ridiculous in its own right, then they have the nerve to do commission on top of that. For example, guru.com is around $90 for a three month subscription and they charge 5% commission with that... if it was the subscription cost only and no commission, I still could not justify paying that.

    I am really not a PHP expert so I tend to look for smaller jobs on these sites, like $40 - $100 range updating of sites and the such. I guess these fee's would be more understandable if you were doing a lot of huge projects?
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    I simply don't like the idea of paying out without the guarantee that I'll make any of it back. It's like, "So I'll take your money, and, uh, good luck!"

    That's why I'll never use a subscription based system.
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    Originally Posted by cybersaga
    I simply don't like the idea of paying out without the guarantee that I'll make any of it back. It's like, "So I'll take your money, and, uh, good luck!"

    That's why I'll never use a subscription based system.
    /me agrees. Thats part of why RAC is popular.
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    Originally Posted by CodeWallah
    After a bit of googling, I've came across a good number of "hire a coder" sites with varying quality both in terms of freelancers available and jobs offered.

    What I'd like to have in this thread is links to known freelancer sites with a brief review on their quality, possibly their fees listed, and any other relevant information.

    Both your own experiences as well as information on known, reputable sites are welcome.
    http://www.cmscoder.com - Free for webdevelopers to bid and complete jobs. The only fees are for the buyer to post up urgent type jobs. Other then that its pretty good.

    Pro's good for dev
    Con's still new so not a plethora of jobs.
    Last edited by 3z3k3l; August 16th, 2005 at 08:43 AM. Reason: Link didn't work
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    What's with all these sites that use the same system, such as SearchLancer, PHP-freelancers and the rest, that tell you it's a violation of their terms of service if you attempt to contact the prospective client by e-mail at any point during the project. How the heck are we supposed to exchange materials? Their clumsy "message board" doesn't allow file uploads, just plain text messages.

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    Originally Posted by CodeWallah
    What's with all these sites that use the same system, such as SearchLancer, PHP-freelancers and the rest, that tell you it's a violation of their terms of service if you attempt to contact the prospective client by e-mail at any point during the project. How the heck are we supposed to exchange materials? Their clumsy "message board" doesn't allow file uploads, just plain text messages.
    Rent A Coder lets you exchange email. You can communicate however you want. They strongly suggest confirming every decision on the site though because in an arbitration, they only consider discussions on the site since everything else can be easily faked.

    I've never found a problem with their discussion board. They allow uploading files, but only zip files.
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    If you guys really want to find a good freelance site, check out:

    http://freelancewebdir.com
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    I've used ScriptLance in the past and their fees are reasonable (5%/$5) the problem is the people who want jobs done for virtually nothing, and the freelancers that agree to it.

    I've bid on several jobs there and gotten exactly 2, probably because I calculate what my time is worth. I throw in a discount, but I'm not going to sell my services for what ends up as $.75/hr.
    A 'good rep' isn't worth that.

    In the end, the people who accept the lowest bids get what they paid for, probably to the delight of hackers.

    Ng

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    Originally Posted by cybersaga
    Rent A Coder lets you exchange email. You can communicate however you want. They strongly suggest confirming every decision on the site though because in an arbitration, they only consider discussions on the site since everything else can be easily faked.

    I've never found a problem with their discussion board. They allow uploading files, but only zip files.
    Yes but rent a coder charges you a fortune just for winning the damn project.. in other words if you are in need of $100.00 then you will end up doing 2 projects instead of one.
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    I actually play a role in the development of Lotsolance.com

    In our system, user ratings/reviews play a HUGE role. Project Managers can actually compare the ratings and growth patterns of selected developers. We avoid percentages taking no commission from developers so what you bid is accurate to what you'll receive. We're also taking steps to prevent the extremely low bids so those who use freelance as their source of income don't get screwed.
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    Freelance sites are good, but take a while to get into.

    I've done one job I took from the forums, and I hated it. It took me like three weeks to get rid of. I did far more work than was required (my fault, I should have said no, though I did later on). I re-did small changes over and over that he de kept undoing and wondered why it broke. After all that, he still jipped me out of 1/3 of the pay ($50US). I didn't bother going after him because, frankly, I wanted nothing to do with him anymore.

    Two other times I almost took jobs from here, but before the deal closed I noticed odd things from them like not answering emails, forgetting what I said in an email they read like half an hour before and stuff. They just seemed shady and unconcerned. So I sent emails both times stating that I was turning down the job because I didn't trust them. Neither of them contacted me anymore. Having had one job go bad, I'm very careful now who I work for.

    The problem with taking jobs from forums is that you have no protection. You're on your own. Freelance sites have escrow (hopefully) and arbitration, which protect you.

    I did meet someone on DevShed through one of the web design forums who I do work for, but I volunteered to do work for him in exchange for free hosting (he owns a hosting company). He liked the work I did on his site so much he's begun to throw some of his design jobs my way. So that worked well, but it wasn't a "I need someone to do this"-"I'll do it for you" kind of beginning.

    Chat rooms are about the same as forums: be very careful.
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    heh if only i can say what i have now
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    All in all, I only got two jobs at scriptlance.

    The first, I didn't regret in the slightest. The guy was working for himself, he knew rudimentary HTML, he spoke perfect english, he understood when things just couldn't work. I did everything needed, got paid. Later he gave me another job. $50 that works out at about $10 an hour is pretty bad, but not for someone going into high school.

    The second job, the guy was great. Then, his company took over. They started barking orders, telling me to do stuff faster, and got really pissed when a certain script wouldn't work (one that no-one figured out how to make it work when I posted it here). In the end, they took my code and didn't give me my money. Now, I avoid scriptlance like the plague - unless someone's looking for something I already have.

    I got a job here from our very own funkyfoof. He just contacted me through PM, I said "sure, why not". The job was great, and I'll have to say, funkyfoof was the best guy I've ever worked for.

    When lotsolance.com is opened, I'll make sure to sign up.

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