Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  • Jump to page:
    #1
  1. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    Devshed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, The States
    Posts
    73
    Rep Power
    14

    Networking Question


    This Question is probably pretty easy for most of the bright people on this forum..

    I am looking to network my 5 computers with a shared internet access from a router through DSL etc etc..
    The DSL Phone Line is on one side of my house, where 2 comps are, the other 3 are at the other side of the house (Where a prexisting network is.)
    My pretty Drawing:

    Net
    |
    |
    Router C3
    / | \ /
    / | \___________________ ? /____ C4
    C1 C2 \
    \
    C5

    What goes where the Question mark is? A Router or a Hub or what? Do I need to do anything special to the initial router to make this work? (Basically, How do I configure all this?)
    Any recommendations on Brands?
    And will Online Gaming work on Comps 3/4/5?

    Thanks to anyone who takes the time to explain this to me..
  2. #2
  3. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    Devshed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, The States
    Posts
    73
    Rep Power
    14

    grrrr


    Considering it really messed up my drawing..I shall now explain it.
    1. Net comes into intial Router, Branches out to Comp 1, Comp 2, and a Long Cable to go accross the house.
    2. Long Cable goes to a (This is where the question mark is) and branches out to Comp 3, Comp 4, and Comp 5.

    Thanks.
  4. #3
  5. #4
  6. Web Developer
    Devshed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    171
    Rep Power
    0

    Re:


    A hub should do the trick just fine. I am assuming most of the traffic between C3, C4, and C5 will be out to the net rather than amongst themselves, so you dont need any heavy duty equipment to handle switching or routing. Metaphorically speaking, the hub you insert at the queston mark is going to be similar to a power strip.. its all on one circuit, but it just gives you multiple outlets.

    I purchased a 4 port DLink hub for about 20 bucks... Im not sure what the other prices run.. it all depends if you are going to prepare for any future expansions, like adding another PC over by 3, 4, and 5.

    About gaming. It should work, I dont know much about proxy servers and firewalls, so Im not the best for that question. Hopefully someone else in this forum can help you with that.
    Last edited by Pasiphae1213; January 7th, 2002 at 12:08 AM.
  7. #5
  8. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    Devshed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, The States
    Posts
    73
    Rep Power
    14

    Thanks


    The traffic between the comps 3/4/5 will be mostly the net, with minimal file/printer sharing.
    Next Question - Should I buy the same brand of Router & Hub? (Would it make it easier?)
    - Does the long cable go into some kind of WAN part on the Hub?
    - And will file transfering be availble between 3/4/5 & 1/2?

    Never done any networking besides a simple plug all the comps into a router, So I am kinda clueless.
  9. #6
  10. Web Developer
    Devshed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    171
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Networking Question


    Check your router's documentation - they might state that any addition DCE (Data Communications Equipment) has to be the same brand. Most do not, so I dont think buying a different brand hub should have any problem.

    The hub will have a port named "Uplink" make sure your cable that goes to the router is plugged in that port. A 4 port hub will typically have 5 actual ports.

    What OS are you running on the 5 PCs? The Windows Network Neighborhood feature will detect the PCs automatically, as long as the NICs, protocols, and naming convention is all correct. This will properly enable file sharing, creating a peer-to-peer network, so no authentication or servers are required. If you want a client-server network, you can probably set up a file / authentication server, as well as a firewall, on one machine, and dedicate that as the server, and then you will have to set up user accounts, mapped drives, etc, to share files.

    But on a simple Windows peer-to-peer network, everything should be set automatically. If you are running Linux, you will need to install Samba to take care of file sharing.

    Anything else, just ask.
  11. #7
  12. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    Devshed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, The States
    Posts
    73
    Rep Power
    14

    Okay


    Thanks,
    Two of the Comps have Win 95, Two more 98, and a last XP.

    Whats a Client Server Network?

    And also, The Cisco 678 is decribed often as a "Router", does that mean I dont have to get another router for the network, and just use an ordinary hub (now 2 hubs) instead?
  13. #8
  14. Web Developer
    Devshed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    171
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Networking Question


    Since all five machines are running some version of the Windows operating system, you shouldnt have any problems getting the machines to recognize each other on the network. The only problem might be the WinXP machine recognizing the Win95 machines - since they are such extreme versions.

    If there arent any problems, upgrade the two Win95 machines to a newer OS.

    About client-server networks: these are the types of networks you see more in schools and businesses - where you have to log in to the system and each user might get some access to programs, files, storage space, or printers that are connected to the server. This is probably too complex for a 5 computer network, and should be thought about if you have at least 10-15 computers on your network.

    The CISCO 678 ADSL router should just be used as your gateway to the outside world. I have attached a GIF image of how your network can be set up.

    Now, you are going to need some IP address scheme for your network, since you have a DSL connection with one IP address, and five machines, and all five machines cannot share the one address. To accomplish this, check about setting up a proxy server. If your router is managable, you might be able to enable some sort of proxy server right on the router itself. I am not too familiar with proxy servers, so you might want to post another thread somewhere on the board and maybe someone can help you with that.

    Any other questions about the networking, please feel free to ask me.


    -Sam
    Attached Images
  15. #9
  16. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    Devshed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, The States
    Posts
    73
    Rep Power
    14
    Thanks for the Drawing, that is pretty much what I am thinking, though I am pretty sure the Cisco 678 doesnt have two ports so I am guessing I have to get a Router..I will ask my ISP. Do routers setup Proxys? I have a current 56k Router (Sad) for the 3 comps and dont recall having to setup such.
  17. #10
  18. Web Developer
    Devshed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    171
    Rep Power
    0
    I dont know much about DSL connection sharing, but I know that you cant get Linksys 4-port cable routers as well as single-port. You might want to check if CISCO offers a multiport DSL router before you go spend $2,000 for a larger router.

    It might even be easier to do something like...

    Code:
           |
           |
     ___|___
    | router  |
    |______|
           |
     ___|___
    | hub     |_______________ C3
    |______|_______________ C4
     |    |  |_________________ C5
     |    |
     C1 C2
    Rather then spending the money for a second hub, it might be cheaper to run 2 more strands of cable to the other machines, plus you will only need one port on the router for the hub to connect instead of requiring two ports on the router.

    About the proxy server - most more expenive CISCO routers have a IOS, a proprietary CISCO Internetwork Operating System, that allows you to Telnet into the router and set access lists, protocols, etc.

    Look carefully at the router specs before purchasing one. If it doesnt have the OS on it, then you probably cannot log into it from your network to set it up as a proxy server. If it does have Telnet capabilities, there isnt a guarantee that you can set it up as a proxy. If this is the case, you can put a second NIC into one of your machines, and stick it between the hub and the router, so all traffic goes through the computer. I have no idea if you can get proxy shareware or who makes proxy software, I think Norton does. Check around.

    -Sam
  19. #11
  20. No Profile Picture
    Gödelian monster
    Devshed Regular (2000 - 2499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Central Florida, USA
    Posts
    2,307
    Rep Power
    61
    I don't see why you would need a router, unless your DSL provider gives you multiple external IP addresses. I have a home DSL network set up, sharing the internet with several Windows and Unix computers. My way of dealing with this is probably more for the Unix wannabe, than for a Windose-only person, but it was fun to set up:

    Code:
       [Internet]
           |
           |      [FreeBSD NAT firewall]
           |          /            \
           |    [Ethernet1]      [Ethernet2: gateway]
           |   (external IP)     (internal IP 192.168.1.1)
           |     /                     \
      [DSL Modem]                       \
     (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx)               [10-port hub]-----------------[any other hub]
    external IP address              /      |    \                        \
                              [computer 1]  |   [computer 3]           [any other computers]
                                            |
                                       [computer 2]
    The beauty of this is that I can run any combination of networks and domains inside the firewall. Internally, at the moment I run a combination of Windows, FreeBSD, and Linux, but I can actually add any kind of computer that supports TCP/IP.

    I have seen businesses have so many problems and headaches with Windows proxy setups that I am very thankful for FreeBSD. Any cheap old computer will do, even a 486, although it will take an hour or two to recompile the kernel for ipfw. Just slap two old 10-megabit network cards in (Your DSL connection is even slower than these so 100 MBit cards are useless), Then, FreeBSD provides a very simple and well-documented method to set one card as the external IP, and one as the internal IP. Then, you just set the internal IP as the gateway to your Windows computers (or any other computer). Give your internal machines IP addresses from the private range of 192.168.x.x or 10.x.x.x. In fact, if you want to run the FreeBSD DHCP daemon, then you can just boot your Windows machines with DHCP, and they will automatically have protected IP addresses. This method also protects your Windows machines from direct attack, since no one from the outside can directly ping the IP address of your Windows machines. You can also set up extra protection, with the FreeBSD firewall rules, such as disallowing port 139 (windows NetBIOS).

    To set up your internal Windows network, just do what you would normally do, since it doesn't affect the FreeBSD firewall in any way.

    This is actually what most of those commercial home firewalls run internally anyway. It's usually some cooked-up version of FreeBSD or Linux.

    See the following links, if you are interested:

    http://www.freebsd-howto.com/HOWTO/Ipfw-HOWTO
    http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2001...SD_Basics.html
    The real n-tier system:

    FreeBSD -> PostgreSQL -> [any_language] -> Apache -> Mozilla/XUL

    Amazon wishlist -- rycamor (at) gmail.com
  21. #12
  22. Web Developer
    Devshed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    171
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Networking Question


    Thanks for answering a few of my questions. Learn something new everyday. I downloaded an ISO of FreeBSD the other day and was planning on playing with it sometime, now I have a reason too.

    Thanks for the information.
  23. #13
  24. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    Devshed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, The States
    Posts
    73
    Rep Power
    14

    More Thanks


    Thanks for all the ideas, I am not really looking for each comp to have its own ISP...the DSL Service doesnt come with em. And I have no idea what BSD is.

    Probably going to go with a D-Link Router and Switch unless you all think thats a horrible brand? They are cheap..And sometimes that doesn't also mean they dont work.

    Also, Will the Router or the Switch assign the IP Address to the computers that are coming off the Switch? (Connected to it)
  25. #14
  26. No Profile Picture
    Gödelian monster
    Devshed Regular (2000 - 2499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Central Florida, USA
    Posts
    2,307
    Rep Power
    61
    I didn't mean that each computer would have its own ISP (is that what you meant?). But internally, you could for example have more than one Windows network, each with its own workgroup or WINS domain. But, with the other computers in the other part of your house, you don't really have to think of them as "another" network. They can all be part of the same network. You can chain hubs or switches together. Just take one port of your main hub and run a cable down to the other hub, and continue as if all computers are on the same network, because they are.

    The point is, all of this would be using IP addresses which are not visible on the Other Side (the Net). BSD is simply a Unix operating system, very similar to Linux, which can handle firewalling and internet connection sharing (or Network Address Translation).

    Most of the home DSL firewall/router/hubs out there actually implement something of this nature automatically, I was just showing how to Do It Yourself, for those DIY geeks out there . If this is what you mean, then you should be OK. But these are not really routers. I thought you were referring to a real router, such as a business would have in the networking room. These should really be put in the category of "internet appliances", but they will do the job just fine.

    D-Link isn't a bad name, but for low-cost network equipment, I usually recommend Linksys. They aren't 3Com, but they are pretty good, overall. Yes, your DSL router/firewall should have no trouble automatically assigning IP addresses.
    The real n-tier system:

    FreeBSD -> PostgreSQL -> [any_language] -> Apache -> Mozilla/XUL

    Amazon wishlist -- rycamor (at) gmail.com
  27. #15
  28. No Profile Picture
    Contributing User
    Devshed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, The States
    Posts
    73
    Rep Power
    14
    Sorry, Did not mean own ISP, Own IP Address.. Not that dumb. So basically what your saying is is that even though they call it a "Router" I still have to get a broadband router as well? I am getting mixed responses on this on the multible forums I am posting on around the net.
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  • Jump to page:

IMN logo majestic logo threadwatch logo seochat tools logo