Other Programming Languages
 
Forums: » Register « |  User CP |  Games |  Calendar |  Members |  FAQs |  Sitemap |  Support | 
User Name:
Password:
Remember me

The Shed is going Social! Join us on FaceBook and Twitter and chime in on the conversation.

Go Back   Dev Shed ForumsProgramming Languages - MoreOther Programming Languages

Reply
Add This Thread To:
  Del.icio.us   Digg   Google   Spurl   Blink   Furl   Simpy   Y! MyWeb 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
 
Unread Dev Shed Forums Sponsor:
  #1  
Old February 21st, 2006, 05:48 AM
meditation meditation is offline
Contributing User
Dev Shed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Italy
Posts: 332 meditation Negative: is most likely a SPAMMER and a traitor to the cause. 
Time spent in forums: 21 h 21 m 35 sec
Reputation Power: 0
Is there a good website about assembly?

Hi everybody.I was wondering whether anybody had a good website about assembly(of any kind,Intel or not)to recommend.I googled for assembly and found some good ones but I'd like to hear from more experienced people than me(easy since I am just starting).Thanks in advance

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old February 21st, 2006, 08:37 AM
crownjewel82 crownjewel82 is offline
rebel with a cause
Dev Shed God 1st Plane (5500 - 5999 posts)
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Batsh!t Crazy State.
Posts: 5,817 crownjewel82 User rank is General 37th Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)crownjewel82 User rank is General 37th Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)crownjewel82 User rank is General 37th Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)crownjewel82 User rank is General 37th Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)crownjewel82 User rank is General 37th Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)crownjewel82 User rank is General 37th Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)crownjewel82 User rank is General 37th Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)crownjewel82 User rank is General 37th Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)crownjewel82 User rank is General 37th Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)crownjewel82 User rank is General 37th Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)crownjewel82 User rank is General 37th Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)crownjewel82 User rank is General 37th Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)crownjewel82 User rank is General 37th Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)crownjewel82 User rank is General 37th Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)crownjewel82 User rank is General 37th Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)crownjewel82 User rank is General 37th Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)  Folding Points: 53188 Folding Title: Beginner FolderFolding Points: 53188 Folding Title: Beginner FolderFolding Points: 53188 Folding Title: Beginner Folder
Time spent in forums: 3 Months 4 Days 12 h 16 m 39 sec
Reputation Power: 3460
I actualy learned assembly from a book so I don't know of any good websites. Maybe you could start working with one now and if you aren't happy with the way it's going you can just start with another.
__________________
Dear God. What is it like in your funny little brains? It must be so boring.

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old February 21st, 2006, 10:33 AM
Annie79's Avatar
Annie79 Annie79 is offline
Meow Black Belt
Dev Shed Novice (500 - 999 posts)
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Beaverton OR
Posts: 932 Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)  Folding Points: 49426 Folding Title: Beginner FolderFolding Points: 49426 Folding Title: Beginner FolderFolding Points: 49426 Folding Title: Beginner Folder
Time spent in forums: 4 Weeks 1 Day 1 h 36 m 24 sec
Reputation Power: 525
Comments on this post
netytan agrees: Good book!
displeaser agrees!

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old February 21st, 2006, 10:52 AM
netytan's Avatar
netytan netytan is offline
Hello World :)
Dev Shed Frequenter (2500 - 2999 posts)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hull, UK
Posts: 2,537 netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level) 
Time spent in forums: 1 Week 2 Days 18 h 17 m 47 sec
Reputation Power: 68
Send a message via ICQ to netytan Send a message via AIM to netytan Send a message via MSN to netytan Send a message via Yahoo to netytan
Beginning Assembly Programming was a very good book for x86, it explains everything very clearly and went into a lot of detail so if you see it on a shelf somewhere I'd pick it up.

If you want to play with other architectures then here are a few links and suggestions, all much cleaner than the x86 Intel's been peddling around for a-decade/decades .

PowerPC – http://www.lightsoft.co.uk/Fantasm/Beginners/begin1.html
MIPS – http://chortle.ccsu.edu/AssemblyTutorial/TutorialContents.html
ARM (most beautiful ASM ever) – http://www.peter-cockerell.net:80/aalp/html/frames.html

I'd also recommend the ARM SOC Architecture second edition though it's not very easy in places.

Enjoy ,

Mark.
__________________
programming language development: www.netytan.com Hula


Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old February 21st, 2006, 11:00 AM
Annie79's Avatar
Annie79 Annie79 is offline
Meow Black Belt
Dev Shed Novice (500 - 999 posts)
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Beaverton OR
Posts: 932 Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)Annie79 User rank is Colonel (50000 - 60000 Reputation Level)  Folding Points: 49426 Folding Title: Beginner FolderFolding Points: 49426 Folding Title: Beginner FolderFolding Points: 49426 Folding Title: Beginner Folder
Time spent in forums: 4 Weeks 1 Day 1 h 36 m 24 sec
Reputation Power: 525

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old February 21st, 2006, 11:23 AM
meditation meditation is offline
Contributing User
Dev Shed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Italy
Posts: 332 meditation Negative: is most likely a SPAMMER and a traitor to the cause. 
Time spent in forums: 21 h 21 m 35 sec
Reputation Power: 0
Thanks a lot everybody.Actually,I already had some assembly "lessons"from the book "the art of exploitation"by Jon Erickson,but it was the minimum required to understand the book so I consider myself a beginner

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old February 21st, 2006, 03:13 PM
LinuxPenguin's Avatar
LinuxPenguin LinuxPenguin is offline
fork while true;
Dev Shed God 1st Plane (5500 - 5999 posts)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: England, UK
Posts: 5,538 LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)  Folding Points: 11590 Folding Title: Novice Folder
Time spent in forums: 1 Month 3 Weeks 1 Day 19 h 30 m 28 sec
Reputation Power: 1050
`Programming from the ground up` : http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/pgubook/

Best Ebook i've yet found, tbh. Get the letter size PDF so it will print nicely should you want to print it.

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old February 23rd, 2006, 12:28 PM
meditation meditation is offline
Contributing User
Dev Shed Newbie (0 - 499 posts)
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Italy
Posts: 332 meditation Negative: is most likely a SPAMMER and a traitor to the cause. 
Time spent in forums: 21 h 21 m 35 sec
Reputation Power: 0
Thanks again,I am going to check it out.Just another thing,does anybody bother to code directly in machine code?or maybe should I make up another post?

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old February 23rd, 2006, 12:38 PM
LinuxPenguin's Avatar
LinuxPenguin LinuxPenguin is offline
fork while true;
Dev Shed God 1st Plane (5500 - 5999 posts)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: England, UK
Posts: 5,538 LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)  Folding Points: 11590 Folding Title: Novice Folder
Time spent in forums: 1 Month 3 Weeks 1 Day 19 h 30 m 28 sec
Reputation Power: 1050
Hah, yeah, good one... Noone programs in machine code mate.

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old February 23rd, 2006, 01:48 PM
netytan's Avatar
netytan netytan is offline
Hello World :)
Dev Shed Frequenter (2500 - 2999 posts)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hull, UK
Posts: 2,537 netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level) 
Time spent in forums: 1 Week 2 Days 18 h 17 m 47 sec
Reputation Power: 68
Send a message via ICQ to netytan Send a message via AIM to netytan Send a message via MSN to netytan Send a message via Yahoo to netytan
Quote:
Originally Posted by LinuxPenguin
Hah, yeah, good one... Noone programs in machine code mate.


I don't think you can say that Penguin, I'm sure there are some who just want to go that step deeper .

It's appealing and it would be very educational but for practical purposes no because it would take too long to do anything and the results would likely be unmaintainable. That said it would hurt your head in a good way and the depth of knowledge gained from doing something this if only for fun might help someone to write better Assembly?

Not for the fain hearted but your welcome to try it ,

Mark.

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old February 23rd, 2006, 02:43 PM
LinuxPenguin's Avatar
LinuxPenguin LinuxPenguin is offline
fork while true;
Dev Shed God 1st Plane (5500 - 5999 posts)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: England, UK
Posts: 5,538 LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)  Folding Points: 11590 Folding Title: Novice Folder
Time spent in forums: 1 Month 3 Weeks 1 Day 19 h 30 m 28 sec
Reputation Power: 1050
how so? End of the day, knowing a good detail in assembler is the most important things. The only step further you could usefully go is finding out about the structure of ELF headers etc.

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old February 24th, 2006, 12:48 AM
netytan's Avatar
netytan netytan is offline
Hello World :)
Dev Shed Frequenter (2500 - 2999 posts)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hull, UK
Posts: 2,537 netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level) 
Time spent in forums: 1 Week 2 Days 18 h 17 m 47 sec
Reputation Power: 68
Send a message via ICQ to netytan Send a message via AIM to netytan Send a message via MSN to netytan Send a message via Yahoo to netytan
Quote:
Originally Posted by LinuxPenguin
how so? End of the day, knowing a good detail in assembler is the most important things. The only step further you could usefully go is finding out about the structure of ELF headers etc.


I would argue that anything that provides any extra insight into the architecture: its internals, design, personality etc. would help write better code.

This is similar to how knowing a car inside and out makes for better drivers. Have you ever met a good mechanic who couldn't drive from the age of 3 .

After writing in machine code for a while I would hypothesis that you'd understand more clearly how the instructions relate to each-other and to the whole, how they combine, there make-up and to some extent effect.

This said I've never done it myself but maybe I will. It's about finding the mindset that works best no?

Take care all ,

Mark.

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old February 24th, 2006, 11:51 AM
LinuxPenguin's Avatar
LinuxPenguin LinuxPenguin is offline
fork while true;
Dev Shed God 1st Plane (5500 - 5999 posts)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: England, UK
Posts: 5,538 LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)  Folding Points: 11590 Folding Title: Novice Folder
Time spent in forums: 1 Month 3 Weeks 1 Day 19 h 30 m 28 sec
Reputation Power: 1050
I disagree, since assembler just replaces numbers with mnemonics. The only difference is what i mentioned, structures of different executables

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old February 24th, 2006, 01:39 PM
netytan's Avatar
netytan netytan is offline
Hello World :)
Dev Shed Frequenter (2500 - 2999 posts)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hull, UK
Posts: 2,537 netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level)netytan User rank is Second Lieutenant (5000 - 10000 Reputation Level) 
Time spent in forums: 1 Week 2 Days 18 h 17 m 47 sec
Reputation Power: 68
Send a message via ICQ to netytan Send a message via AIM to netytan Send a message via MSN to netytan Send a message via Yahoo to netytan
Quote:
Originally Posted by LinuxPenguin
I disagree, since assembler just replaces numbers with mnemonics. The only difference is what i mentioned, structures of different executables


Who's to say that those bit patterns don't give some insight? Have you done machine level coding?

I'll admit that I haven't looked at writing machine code but I'll keep an open mind about what can be gained from such an experience.

There is more than replacing mnemonics with numbers, the bit patterns give you a glimpse of the underlying architecture – if you've done or made anything with digital systems or logic gates in electronics such as half and full adders you should see this to be true, or I do.

Just because from your perspective on the beach the water looks shallow doesn't mean that it is.

While I was reading about ARM & MIPs assembly in particular I found that it's common to go into the bit patterns of most mnemonic and talk about it quite completely.

From this level you can see relationships between mnemonics that aren't exactly obvious.

In any case any learning is worth the undertaking; not to be snubbed off as pointless though misunderstanding .

Take care,

Mark.

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old February 24th, 2006, 02:00 PM
LinuxPenguin's Avatar
LinuxPenguin LinuxPenguin is offline
fork while true;
Dev Shed God 1st Plane (5500 - 5999 posts)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: England, UK
Posts: 5,538 LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)LinuxPenguin User rank is General 1st Grade (Above 100000 Reputation Level)  Folding Points: 11590 Folding Title: Novice Folder
Time spent in forums: 1 Month 3 Weeks 1 Day 19 h 30 m 28 sec
Reputation Power: 1050
Actually, it might surprise you to know i've done a fair bit with underlying machine code, not that that would be enough to quash your ego about such things.

My assembler book seemed to think they needed to pad out the book so they could charge more, so there's a good section on how it translates into machine code.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Viewing: Dev Shed ForumsProgramming Languages - MoreOther Programming Languages > Is there a good website about assembly?

Developer Shed Advertisers and Affiliates



Thread Tools  Search this Thread 
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes  Rate This Thread 
Rate This Thread:


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
View Your Warnings | New Posts | Latest News | Latest Threads | Shoutbox
Forum Jump

Forums: » Register « |  User CP |  Games |  Calendar |  Members |  FAQs |  Sitemap |  Support | 
  
 


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

© 2003-2013 by Developer Shed. All rights reserved. DS Cluster - Follow our Sitemap