Page 4 - ASP.net or PHP ??

Well, one shouldn't ASSume anything. But for purposes of our comparison I'll stipulate. However, notice that you don't mention an RDBMS here but later you do (and it happens to be MySQL for whatever lame reason).

I wouldn't. Not because of anything agains MSSQL or PHP but because of the platform. How anyone could consider placing an enterprise level / mission critical application on an MS server is beyond me.

Again, you are under the ASSumption that the only OS RDBMS to use with PHP is MySQL. I don't know why you are stubbornly sticking to this. Ever heard of Postgres? How about Firebird?

Hell, if you want a commercial RDBMS, why not get off of MS completely and run Oracle under Linux? Then you can have your commercial RDBMS (since the only OS one you seem to be aware of is MySQL) on a stable platform.

i would just like to point out... ASP sucks, ASP.NET is what we are talking about

word.


actually i seem to remember devshed having this very problem, maybe a year and a half ago or so. they were mySql, i wonder if they still are. i don't see those issues now. this site's performance is much better now than it was then.

i don't know squat about mySql performance benchmarks... my impression was that it wasn't enough to handle heavy lifting (like finding this thread's most recent posts in a database of many many thousands of posts). when you say that either php or mySql starts to buckle under heavy loads, i'd offer that of those two, mySql is by far the most likely culprit. if you bring the webserver (hardware and software) into the mix, with respect to things like ability to handle concurrent requests, the php engine is still the least likely thing to cause performance problems.


and on the flip side of that coin, what we're really talking about is Apache/PHP/mySql. to compare PHP to ASP.Net is sort of an apples-and-oranges thing, isn't it? .net is a web app platform, while php is just a language and interpreter, usually deployed as part of an apache-based platform.

when you guys talk about asp.net, what is the webserver technology for the most part- IIS? the database- sqlServer?

yes, its a platform, and the argument is semi-non-valid, but we are debating the choice between ASP.NET and PHP to develop web pages, services and apps, clearly, and in that both are valid, and quality choices

certainly the two solutions are entirely different, .NET being an entire framework... but the framework is part of why i think asp.net is great.

you can run .NET off of apache... i don't believe its that hard to setup.. not sure if you can do it without mono yet.. and you can certainly use mysql with .NET, its just paired more often with mssql because mssql is faster on windows systems then mysql, and because there is support for mssql in vs.net (i am not sure how linux mysql vs windows mssql compare speedwise)


also there is a project to get the .net architecture to work on linux systems, and it seems to work pretty well, but i haven't had time to test it thoroughly... and i will certainly keep my eye on it.

Hi guys,
I am very confused about how to start leaning PHP.
Suppose I use my PC (running XP) as a server. what do I have to setup in my PC in order to have PHP?
I downloaded PHP 4.3.4 zip package and PHP 4.3.4 installer from PHP.net. What should I do with them and what else do I need?
Plz help me out !

Rod k
"Well, one shouldn't ASSume anything. "
Of course one should, if you dont know in which context you have a discussion, how cold one even have a good discussion?
Maybe I was unclear in my first post, but I made my assumption clear in the second one.

"and it happens to be MySQL for whatever lame reason"

Well whats up with your lame attitude?
Could one not even have an opinion without beeing disrespected?
I do know there are other RDBMS, why do you assume I dont know this?
The reason I mention the PHP/mySQL is that it is considered "standard" , of course I could consider using maybe a PHP/Postgres solution,but my point is: I would not use a mySQL/PHP solution in a enterprise site.
That was simply my opinion in this context; a guy wants to be steered in a certain direction and surely he wants to hear different opinions.

I think its about time I jumped in here.

I don't think RodK has an attitude issue at all. MySQL is NOT an enterprise solution and comparing it to MSSQL is not good. For enterprise usage use something else.

PHP with MySQL is standard? Since when? MySQL is just another database system. Just because a lot of people use PHP with MySQL does NOT make it a standard. Its the same as saying that Access is the standard for usage with ASP.NET... a lot of people do it.

Before you were comparing a PHP/MySQL solution to ASP.NET/SQL-server solution. This is like comparing a PHP/Oracle solution to ASP.NET / MS Access solution. In that case the PHP solution would be better by a long shot.

MySQL is NOT the only solution for PHP users and certainly is not the standard. You need to compare things correctly since in this case its not the language but the databases that is the reason for not selecting one of the options.

Now just the other day Sterling Hughes put an entry into his blog about .NET vs PHP. I suggest everyone have a read of it and see what you think.

EDIT: Just noticed link has already been posted Looked through thread before and didnt see it first time.

First, a related article which I thought was very good. It's a Perl hacker writing about his experience with .NET and C#. He has good things to say about it, and compares the CLR a bit to Parrot. He also mentions how the two methods ActiveState used to make Perl compatible with .NET work. Oddly enough, neither of them involve compiling Perl into CL.

According to the original thread start, if you're using .NET, you're really not doing much work at all in ASP. Almost everything is done in whatever you back-end language is (commonly C#). So the ASP/PHP choice really isn't that. The only times I had to dip into ASP is when I (quicky) ran into the inadequacies of the form builder. [OT] VS.NET likes to..."pretty up" the layout of the ASP code, and me and MS differ greatly on our opinions of what's "pretty". Every time I changed something so I could read it, it obfuscated it back to how it liked it.[/OT]

Another thing I found odd about .NET is that I had to compile the C# which put it on the webserver. Then the first time the page was hit, it had to take its time to compile again (I imagine the ASP, or maybe the CLR). After that it was cached and ran quickly, though. Just compiling a project twice struck me as strange.

As to cost, the linux/apache bit is certainly more inexpensive than windows/iis, but I'm pretty sure that VS.NET is significantly cheaper than J2EE. That's actually one of it's big draw points for using the MS solution.

No one can honestly say you can't get a job working with open technologies, but by the same token, no one can say it's easier than finding work with VS.NET. I'm wandering the market right now looking for something, and it's amazing how many people are using .NET.

Perl has two very distinct uses. Seen advertised as either "shell/perl scripting" or "php/perl". Perl is used a ton in server administration, even in windows (they've started to find out how much VBS blows). But generally if you have a programming job with Perl, it's web development. The sysadmins do a lot more than code. Sure, there's some usage blur, but those are the two most common uses.

Sure, the openness of PHP helps make it popular in free online support forums (like these), but I think more than the free speech is the free beer. Kids making webpages on Geocities aren't going to drop over $1k to make web logs that won't even run without paid hosting. PHP is such an easy language to pick up, it's free (cost-less), documentation and support are (available for) free, hosting is even available for free (likely ad-supported, but how many 13 year old newbies care about ads?).

Why more companies use .NET than open technologies, I don't know. I hear that it handles the huge infrastructure of multi-billion dollar companies much better. How or why, I don't know. I've never had to make something that outgrew what Perl could do. If someone has any insight on how it's better, so share.


Thanks, that sums up the last three pages of posts pretty well.

But he did capitalize A S S in 'assumption' - there must have been a reason for that, and since he was disagreeing with someone - nothing wrong with that - there was the implication that Danjel was an 'A S S' perhaps. Looked disrespectful to me.

I am the original poster of this thread; and I would like to start off by thanking everyone for their replies and the great info contained within them. Over the last few weeks, I have learned quite a bit about asp.NET and the whole .Net framework in general.

I now know that ASP.NET is the tool for developing web apps within the .NET Framework. I also learned that the .Net platform is a highly sophisticated application development environment with a host of outstanding tools and features for devlelopers to play with. The BCL that puts a zillion class's in your hands, as well as the CLR, which lets developers develop in any language they choose, as long as it is supported by the CLR.

But after reading a few tutorials on C#, the .net SDK, and VisualStudio.Net, I also realized that, for a newbie, there seems to be a pretty steep learning curve (any leads on a good learning resource would be greatly appreciated.) Most of this stuff I don't even really think is pertinent to my needs at this time. I don't see myself developing windows applications anytime soon. I am, however, still going to continue learning ASP.net, if I can learn it without the excess baggage.

I have also increased my awareness of the power of PHP. I have to admit I was a little in the dark regarding PHp/Mysql. However, once I did a little research into the topic, I soon realized that Mysql is not the only fish in the database sea for PHP. OK, I admit it. I learned PHP/Mysql/apache from a sam's 24 hour book , but don't knock it. Within a week I had a store set up with a secure shopping cart mechanism and a payment gateway.

The thing I like most about PHP is its ease of use, along with the fact that, despite its newbie friendly learning curve, PHP is a very robust and extremely powerful web app development tool. In the right hands of course.

I also get a strong sense that there are few .NET community members that are very apprehensive towards the PHP (and open source in general) folks. This may not be accurate. It is just my oppinion based on the fact that there were a couple rude comments posted, coupled with the fact that when I originally posted this thread, I posted it in the ASP.NET forum, where it got booted to the PHP forum. I don't know why this happened.

After some research and deliberation, I have decided to stick with PHP. The main reasons are these:

[/list]

1. PHP's power and ease of use.
2. The outstanding resources readily available, along with a great community of developers who seem more than willing to go out of their way to help.

I got the feeling it was the other way around

it was both ways. People tend to support what they know. It's the whole Chevy v. Ford thing. Both are good at some things and not so much at others. You just have to choose what's best for you.

I personally started on ASP/Access a couple years ago and saw it was very lacking so I switched more to PHP/mySQL in the past year or so. PHP and mySQL do everything I need. I don't feel the need to switch as a small freelance designer. I'll say right now i've never tried anything bigger than a fairly small e-commerce site but I firmly believe it's all in what you need that influences the decision the most.