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    You can write systems software in interpreted languages, just sometimes they're not the best choice. A defragmenter utility for example, might not be the best thing to do in perl.

    To entirely throw them out as useless is something that isn't going to do anyone any good, so i suggest you retract your earlier statement.
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    Originally Posted by Randux
    It's interesting to hear all the lectures I get from univeristy students and people who are hobbyist programmers or academics who've never done a days work in their lives. You guys have a lot to learn!
    We certainly do. Thank goodness you're here!

    Comments on this post

    • LinuxPenguin agrees : Rofl
    • displeaser agrees : I missed that particular broad, sweeping (inaccurate) statement.
    • netytan agrees : Maybe we don't do a days work because we dont have to spend days solving a task ;).
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    Originally Posted by LinuxPenguin
    You're drawing a false distinction, this is what i'm telling you. You can call it software because that's what it is. your own definition is extremely restrictive. Whatever it's written in doesn't matter, interpreted or compiled ,it is software.
    It does matter, and people who know more than you, and have been programming large systems longer than you've been alive, made the distinction. It's not my definition. I was just recalling how much things have changed and noting some history bits for those who might be interested in such things. I simply related the way it was.

    You could learn a lot by hearing history from people who were there. But I see that you prefer to argue and say this or that isn't valid. That doesn't matter a bit. This was all clarified years ago and I didn't start programming and suddenly decide that I had all the answers and treat with disrespect all who came before me, telling them that what they knew was all falsehood and rubbish. Caw, it's appalling the way people conduct themselves. I kept my mouth shut, I listened, and I learned. And I've had over thirty years in this business. Maybe I have something to offer.

    The little post I made was just food for thought. What a shame that everybody takes things personally and prefers to become angry when if they would give a listen they might see the world a little differently.
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    In a word: bollocks.

    There are many many people here with combined experience that GREATLY outnumbers your own, that disagree.

    And especially on the java front. Can I remind you the whole of solaris is java...
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    Originally Posted by Randux
    It does matter, and people who know more than you, and have been programming large systems longer than you've been alive, made the distinction. It's not my definition. I was just recalling how much things have changed and noting some history bits for those who might be interested in such things.
    Language, like the computing world, evolves. Your 'original' definition is no longer valid. To argue that software is only software if it has to interact on a base level with the OS, in this day and age, is ludicrous. You can remain stuck in the past for all I care...

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    • netytan agrees : Exactly; its outdated
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    Originally Posted by Randux
    It does matter, and people who know more than you, and have been programming large systems longer than you've been alive, made the distinction. It's not my definition. I was just recalling how much things have changed and noting some history bits for those who might be interested in such things. I simply related the way it was.

    You could learn a lot by hearing history from people who were there. But I see that you prefer to argue and say this or that isn't valid. That doesn't matter a bit. This was all clarified years ago and I didn't start programming and suddenly decide that I had all the answers and treat with disrespect all who came before me, telling them that what they knew was all falsehood and rubbish. Caw, it's appalling the way people conduct themselves. I kept my mouth shut, I listened, and I learned. And I've had over thirty years in this business. Maybe I have something to offer.

    The little post I made was just food for thought. What a shame that everybody takes things personally and prefers to become angry when if they would give a listen they might see the world a little differently.
    So what this comes down to is that you just want everyone to see things your way just because you've been doing this longer than we have. ******. I'm more than willing to listen to and learn from people who've been around longer than I have. But I know from experience that this industry moves too quickly for anyone to claim anything by virtue of experience measured only in years. And I have a serious problem with anyone who thinks they can say "I was doing this when you were still ****ting your diapers" and think it actually means something.

    In the military, marksmanship instructors have to re-certify every two weeks. If they fail, they can't instruct. That philosophy of keeping yourself up to standard applies here. Take your opinions on java for example. I wouldn't use it for extremely complex mathematical calculations. But for everyday application and software development it's not significantly faster or slower than anything else really. You sound like someone who touched java in version 1.0 and hasn't touched it since. Do you really think it could have taken of the way it has if it was still as slow as it was then? The same is true of other languages. Sure scripting languages might not have meant much when you first started out but languages evolve and people find new and creative things to do with them every day. Who are you to say what something can and can't do? The evidence against your argument is in the people who have done things with the languages.

    So unless you've got something else to say besides "OMG Teh scripting language is teh eeevillll!!!!!!!!11111!!!111!!1one" please drop it.

    Comments on this post

    • Adrastea0413 agrees
    • codergeek42 agrees : Well said.
    Dear God. What is it like in your funny little brains? It must be so boring.
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    Originally Posted by Dictionary.com
    soft·ware
    n. Computer Science

    The programs, routines, and symbolic languages that control the functioning of the hardware and direct its operation.
    Funny, this doesn't include the harsh restrictions you're telling us about.
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    Originally Posted by cybersaga
    Funny, this doesn't include the harsh restrictions you're telling us about.
    Nor would anyone expect it to. He's talking bullsh!t and he demands respect because he's been around longer than some of us.

    Just remember, when you've been in the business 30 years, even if the only language you used was BBC BASIC, you know more than everyone else

    Now, back to our regularly scheduled OT argument.

    I'll go **** my diapers now :|
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    Originally Posted by LinuxPenguin
    Can I remind you the whole of solaris is java...
    Come on now James, you know you're not allowed to make good points when debating.

    I wonder what our friend has to say about this. An operating system written in a "scripting language"? Blasphemy! It can't be true. It's not real software, I guess.
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    Originally Posted by Adrastea0413
    Come on now James, you know you're not allowed to make good points when debating.

    I wonder what our friend has to say about this. An operating system written in a "scripting language"? Blasphemy! It can't be true. It's not real software, I guess.
    Not even just a scripting language, a `worthless` language, that `can't do everything a programming language can`
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    We have a $425,000 multifunctional print station in our office whose entire operating system is written in embedded Java. I guess that doesn't count either. The Tivo operating system is also written in embedded Java. Nope, that's not system software either.

    Damn worthless language... can't do anything at the system level.
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    Originally Posted by LinuxPenguin
    Not even just a scripting language, a `worthless` language, that `can't do everything a programming language can`
    As usual, you are talking out of your arse. Point me to some doc that say Solaris is written in Java. The kernel, not some external pieces.

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    • jamieB agrees : Offensive but true
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    Originally Posted by Adrastea0413
    We have a $425,000 multifunctional print station in our office whose entire operating system is written in embedded Java. I guess that doesn't count either. The Tivo operating system is also written in embedded Java. Nope, that's not system software either.

    Damn worthless language... can't do anything at the system level.
    Yes, a big printer is certainly a terribly complicated, performance-sensitive platform. And it proves your point about mission critical software.

    "Awesome to see another CICS person here."

    Great load of bloodly *******!
    Last edited by SimonGreenhill; July 9th, 2006 at 12:57 AM. Reason: vulgarity removed
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    That's not on, keep your insults to yourself or <leave>. I've reported your posts to the mods, it's entirely unacceptable.
    Last edited by SimonGreenhill; July 9th, 2006 at 12:57 AM. Reason: vulgarity removed
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    Originally Posted by Randux
    In software, you're either designing base services or interfacing with low-level operating system features. You cannot use scripting languages for this sort of work.
    Originally Posted by Randux
    Java is a pig and it's certainly not a language. ...it's a scripting platform and nobody uses it for ... systems programming.
    So, you're saying that Java is a scripting language and scripting languages cannot be used for systems programming. Therefore, by your argument, Java cannot be used for systems programming.

    JavaOS and JavaStation... QED

    Your argument is a logical fallacy.

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