January 4th, 2002, 01:23 PM
I was wondering how long it would it would take to hear something from one of you guys.
In response to what you said, you've got tons of help, right here. Everybody in this thread is offering to help do another site for free, write articles, code, etc for free. We just want tutorials and code out there for other people to use. We want stuff that's relevant to what we need.
You've got a great community of people here on these forums that I'm proud to be a part of. A lot of people come here every day seeking help and 99% of the time they find it.
I think all of the ideas we've dicussed on here could be applied to Devshed. It's where we're at now and where we all like to be. It's just that we have no say-so or control over anything for the site.
If you want Devshed.com to develop and continue to grow, I think it's about time to get some of us more involved in the total site, instead of just the forums.
-- Cigars, whiskey and wild, wild women. --
January 4th, 2002, 02:15 PM
Indeed. Let us develop a community side, if you haven't the time (which is understandable). I don't think people want to get away from Devshed... we just want more of a role in the community, an abiliyt to contribute beyond answering people's questions in a forum, epsecially given that the site has so much else to offer.
As for the spelling, grammar etc, a simple peer review system would be fine there. And money? I doubt anyone here is looking for any from you ;-)
January 4th, 2002, 03:00 PM
I'd say keep the 'live' site on sourceforge if we're going to do any of it on sourceforge. But that's just my thought on it.
As for Randy's and everybody's relies since then:
I don't know what you guys are talking about, Down with Devshed!!!!
Everything everybody's said and more is true. We just want a community site run by the community. AlCapone had a great point in that doing/helping with such a site, even if its to write just one tutorial, would be a great thing on a résumé or to tell a potential employer. I know that when one of these fellow forum folks (I'll save his name) sent me a link to an ipchains tutorial they had written, I was blown away -- and I'm not even a manager looking to hire somebody.
The way this whole thing is shaping up its going to have different types of tutorials anyway. People can come to devshed and learn the semantics of a language or system, and then come to our site and see how to effectively use it.
As a side note: You had a posting on the frontpage of devshed for a long time asking for people to e-mail you (or jobs@ rather) to get job with devshed, so of course you'd have to expect people to open their email clients and hastily type out an email to somebody that seems hungry for writers without to much care about spelling and such .
January 4th, 2002, 03:01 PM
Thanks for the kind words.
One of the goals we've had for the new Zope-based devshed is to be able to have more community involvement in the roles of editor, writer, etc. We haven't had the time to do it, and I wasn't sure if there was enough support to do it/manage it. Let me get with Lucas Monday and see how far along this road we've gotten and where we might go.. I'll post more details then. Then lets discuss where this might go.
January 4th, 2002, 08:32 PM
This sounds like some good progress here. It's nice to eventually hear the thoughts of one of the founders of devshed and the reasons as to why the site isn't more open community regards submission or articles and such like.
Personally the reason I liked the name www.devshedplus.com was that it gives some indication as to our roots as coders coming from the excellent devshed forums. Further I don't think the name could (should?) be a cause of problem for the authors of devshed, and after reading Randy's comments I certainly don't think it would be a problem naming a new site devshedplus.com. If anything it's a mark of respect to the original site (having so many developers wanting to make devshed even better by extending it in their own way).
Of course the only problem with devshedplus is it sounds too much like 'devshed' to be a standalone site - some ties with the master devshed site in terms of integration would be required.
At the end of the day we all need to agree on a name though, and if Jon doesn't like the devshedplus name then we're scoobied since it's his baby.
>>edit - thanx jon, just read your comment on the ipmasq tut!
Last edited by munkfish; January 4th, 2002 at 08:37 PM.
January 4th, 2002, 08:50 PM
January 5th, 2002, 07:00 AM
Well maybe it would be best to develop a site alongside DevShed, if the DevShed team aren't quite ready for us yet. That way we get free reign to make the site into what we want, without any restrictions from DevShed. And in the future if they seem compatible they can merge somehow, in the most appropriate way.
I'm not saying DevShed will be a pain in the backside for us, but that there will inevitably be some conflicts. I *think* (and correct me if I'm wrong) that people here see mto want to make a community-led programmer's resource with tutorials, help files and a forum, and maybe more. People also feel friendly towards DevShed, perhaps even an allegiance. DevShed have their own agenda, including paying their wages, paying for site upkeep, keeping visitors and ads coming in, and topmost according to Randy - keeping us happy.
Those little differences can easily bring up conflidts. They may well not, and if when we've got a working live site finished there are no conflicts, there will be no trouble in merging the two completely. A single Web Site is afterall a lot easier for the visitor. If there are small conflicts, we will be in a good position to resolve them, rather than getting angry and making poor compromises as we try to expand the project.
January 5th, 2002, 09:34 PM
I think this has for the most part, grown beyond my total control . It would be fine with me if we just did this as a sourceforge project now and created however we all want to do it. I'd just like a place where i can write tutorials that I've got in my head to write ;p. I'd even write them for devshed if they're let me or hire me to (if they feel they must pay ;p).
January 6th, 2002, 12:12 PM
Well, I must say I'm sorry that I've been busy the last few days and have just seen this thread now. In any event after having read through the thread (yes all of it) here are my thoughts.
First the name. Even though it appears DevShed probably wouldn't have a problem with Devshedplus, it would imply to visitors that this site would be in some way related to DevShed, which it isn't per se. Something that came to mind to me when I was reading through was "Develology," or the study of development. To me this seems to reflect the nature of the site proposed: rather than showing how to code, it shows how to develop applications. And coincidentally, all the domains for it are open.
Now on the subject of a CMS. From what I've seen every single one out there has one problem or another. Either it doesn't have a feature you want, or it has performance issues, or its security is as tight as a leaky ship. So what I'm trying to get to is that the best CMS is one you design yourself. And provided that it is written securely enough, I am all for releasing it under the GPL.
Hosting on Sourceforge could work, but ideally there should be a development enviorment where more than one person could collaborate on an article: a sandbox. I would offer mine, but its a P200 whose MB is dieing and is on a 56k.
All DevShed issues aside, after all the location of the site is really irrelevant, I'd be more than willing to help out with this project. If it is decided to write a custom CMS, I have experience working with them. I'd also be able to help proofread articles if there is a need.
Allow me to conclude by saying that this is a project that I would be proud to say I worked on, and I sincerely hope it succeeds.
Is it just me or is it cold in here?
January 6th, 2002, 05:42 PM
How about setting up a cvs server on one of your own machines (did you say you had your own box above!?!) and allowing access to the code? Otherwise you could take up the offer of one of the other kind ppl offering space maybe? This way people could take a look at the code and if anyone has the time, modify/add to it.
Tell me about it! I've just made a request to help out on the FreeBSD Doc Project - the PPP primer specifically - so I'm about to embark on the awesome task of learning some SGML/docbook. Should be good experience anyway.
January 6th, 2002, 08:26 PM
This sounds really really cool. I don't know if many know me, but I'd be happy and honored to help out if I can.
January 7th, 2002, 01:59 PM
Just some coments on using the DevShed name elsewhere:
A few years back we launched a service called "iCable". Within a couple months a guy send us a cease and desist letter for using the letter "i" in our name. He claimed legitimate trademark rights to the letter "i" used at the beginning of a name that had to do with data networking. Kinda funny, kinda not...
When we later started brainstorming names for the spinoff web company, the name "ingenuity" came up. We liked it but someone said, "are you sure you can use that name with an "i" at the beginning?" We laughed, and erased the "i". nGenuity was born.
Last year we got another Cease and Desist letter, this time from Genuity. Being that they are really big and their lawyers have an office on Park Avenue in New York, we respectfully changed the name to Developer Shed, Inc.
I'd appreciate if the DevShed name was not used elsewhere. While I don't even want to think about being on the other side of a cease and desist letter, I'd rather not have to explain it to my board and co-owners. The name does have value, and unless we protect it legally, I understand we could lose it to someone else. Not that any of you would take it, but you never know who else might.
BTW: Anyone hear of DevHead?
I AM interested in seeing where we might work together with another site on a project.
January 7th, 2002, 03:44 PM
So where exactly did the inspiration for 'developer shed' come from then? You didn't get to that part! I just have this image of one of you guys stuck out in the cold in a Shed with just a pile of old boxes, hacking away at them furiously in the dark.
That's ridiculous about claiming rights to the letter i as in iCable - amazing what a bit of money in the hands of the right lawyer can do in pursuading people 'you're right' - doesn't sound legal to me.
January 7th, 2002, 05:08 PM
If I may...
It seems to me as if we have are the prerequisites for a quality developer community site here. Plenty of people here have offered to write articles on a variety of topics, several people have offered to help write the engine, and several have offered hosting. In short, all that is wanting is the synergy of when all the peices come together.
Now, what would like to know, and this is directed primarily to JonLed but also to all, is how do we all get together to make this happen? And as a component of that there are also several questions that I believe should be definitively answered: what is the name? Where will the project be hosted? How does someone participiate? Once things are all ironed out, I think that a great site will be born.
Is it just me or is it cold in here?
January 7th, 2002, 10:37 PM
I was just kidding about the name, anyhow.
I think this ought to be made into a sourceforge project. Let's see if people actually do what they say. Once we get enough going on sourceforge, and enough interest, then I think we should move on to getting an actual domain for it.
Randy: You never really answered about us proofreading and editing ariticles for you, contributing ariticles for free or reduced (discount) prices, becoming more involved in the site, etc...
I think we'll still go on with the other site no matter what. Most want to build something from the ground up. It will have started from here at Devshed, so you can be proud of that, but we're not abandoning you completely. We just want to know what we can do around here...well, I do at least.