Any programmer interested in making a 2D game engine, if not Why Not?

Any programmer interested in making a 2D game engine, if not why not?

To make a 2D game engine that can make a platform game, space game, fighting game, without programming would be beneficial to not just non programmers but to programmers in a lot time and effort. Even some professionals find the more detailed design of it interesting.

The program will have a simple scripting for non programmers be an If, Then, Else option and you select and edit 1 or more sprites and stats at a time in a visual format which can save time.

The standard 3D and 2D game engines take a long time to make a game with little progress. Before making a great 3D engine there should be a great 2D engine. It is like learning how to crawl before walking. I have the interface completed but I was wondering if some would “want” to make it or not.

Tell me what you think.
Thanks for the input

kind of like Game Maker http://www.gamemaker.nl/ except not as good, right? And the Quake II engine is Open Source Anyway, http://www.vertigosoftware.com/Quake2.htm

I know all the game makers and they are not impressive.
Game Maker is limited, slow, does not have a visual scripting interface, and not as easy to make games which is why many do not use it. The games that come out with the game maker are as advanced as 4 or some ½ bit systems with updated art.
Even the fighting engine like mugen does not have a user interface. Both can make a side view game in a way and they can only make it ½ in what you are able to do. Wouldn’t you agree in a way?

A 2D game is basically to add and move around art with special circumstances.

Start your project. You'll soon see why all the "gamemakers" suck. The simple reason is: To make a high end game, you need high end programming. Point.

If you want to check out a very advanced 2D and 3D Engine, get the trial version of Macromedia's Director. It has iirc everything you are requesting.
Making complicated projects with Director is a PITA, but it is the most advanced authoring tool I know of. Suitable for nearly everything. But very low productivity factor.

I have done many multimedia projects and tested many different environments. I found nothing I'd prefer to a Delphi or C++ compiler with some additional libraries. For me, Director is only a tool for quick-n-dirty prototyping.

M.

There are dozens of 2D and 3D game engines, both open source and commercial.

Have you taken a look at SDL? It is a high quality cross platform open source 2D engine. It is a core component of Pygame, which interfaces SDL with the Python scripting language.

SDL has been used in commercial games such as the Linux version of Neverwinter Nights.

If you want to reinvent the wheel go ahead, but I would be interested in your analysis of SDL/pygame, and a description of how you would improve on it. Adding a visual scripting interface to Pygame might be interesting, but I have not seen a graphical programming language that is any easier to use than plain text. Python is very easy to pick up and powerful enough to do pretty much anything you want with it.

Dave - The Developers' Coach

Those programs require programming to even make a simple game.

I found another game maker called "game editor" that I will check out at http://game-editor.com/orders.html and that goes for $200 and is not that user friendly. My design is simpler and faster.

Maybe AOL or MSN should make one since they know about interface better. lol

Well would anyone be interested in making a far better 2D engine one?

have you tried allegro?

what are you writing it in?

Man... you must be damn good to expect to make a btter software than all of the above mentioned. Good luck with that

Not Director. You can download tons of libraries with behaviours for everything on the 'net. Then you can point-n-klick create small games within a few minutes.

But don't mistake me, I am not promoting director, I am promoting a C++ compiler and some good libraries (like the mentioned "allegro")

I wonder who would be the target audience for such an engine. Certainly not programmers. Kids? - They pick up programming much quicker than game concepts. Who is it?

M.

I tried the demo of game editor and it is annoying so here is what
Well many want a simple non programming game maker if you see all the game sites how so many artists want one, and even those game maker sites mentioned have plenty of members. It is in demand and would benefit non programmers and programmer in many ways.

Here is one that is “generally” in the right direction that many game authors says

(Show pic if you can.)
I was in a team to make it but the programmer real life issues to deal with.

This is not a real game engine, but it was supposed to be but the programmers had to drop out from programming to take care of personal things. The purpose of this was to not require programming and to be able to make 2D games like Mega Man, Zelda, R-type, King of Fighter, etc. Also it was supposed to be more versatile, simple, and quicker than the rest of the game makers.

I know that it needs a little cleaning up to look better presented by taking off some things but it is simpler than it looks since it has a lot of clutter on screen since you see all the options available. The reason is that I think a 2D game is basically the movement of pictures with special circumstances to each. Also the event editor is like a programming language in the sense that it has the “if, then, else” to get many actions, like for example if character (B) contacts (Enemy) then (-10) of (HP). I think this would help programmers make games faster and help non programmers make games. Ask me a command to do and I will explain step by step so show how easy it can be.

Here is a quick rough example for a player to run left, or you can select more than 1 player at a time to save time. You can ignore lines that do not apply:
1 Select Sprite list and player(s) file animation in the folder that runs
2 Stats to select your sprites properties and the rest that may apply
2A Select input with the meter bar at the bottom on how fast it should go and the rest
2B Select direction to go to the left
3 Animation and select how fast it animates and the rest that may apply
3A Select input with the meter bar at the bottom on how fast it should go and the rest
3B Select direction to go to the left
4 Event editor when you bump into wall step (1) When sprite (run attack) contacts (all) sprite (blocks) then (stand1 animation).
6 Select Controls to set to run left on your joystick to say (tap) (left), (hold) (left) to run.
7 Sound to select a running sound
8 bounding box can vary for each animation.

The rest are not needed for now. But I am sure some can add on to it and take away some things to make it even better, but so far it is in the right direction. Wouldn’t you agree?

I do agree, this would be a good logical base for a IDE to create games.
But it is there already... eg. Director. How do you think you can compete with the "Big Players" like Macromedia?

Designers all over the world use it. Part of my job used to be to create the behaviours (scripts) so that the designer can point-n-click presentations (it wasn't games then, but the concepts are about the same).

On the other hand, if you have got good ideas and partners for the marketing, let's build it. I'm available

How director works:
1 Select Sprite list and player(s) file animation in the folder that runs
Make one CastLib, call it "Sprites", call one member "Player". Drag-n-drop your "Player" to the stage.
2 Stats to select your sprites properties and the rest that may apply
An associative array. The docs don't mention it, but it works. Attach a suitable script to the "Player". I can make a general "user data" script which simply stores a list of key->value pairs per instance in a few minutes.
2A Select input with the meter bar at the bottom on how fast it should go and the rest
Changing the parameters of the array.
2B Select direction to go to the left
Changing the parameters of the array.
3 Animation and select how fast it animates and the rest that may apply
I need 15 minutes for a "animate sprite" behaviour which works like you know it from 2D engines. This behaviour, once written, will be a point-n-click programming item.
3A Select input with the meter bar at the bottom on how fast it should go and the rest
Changing the parameters of the array.
3B Select direction to go to the left
Changing the parameters of the array. Alternatively, the parameters of the behaviour script.
4 Event editor when you bump into wall step (1) When sprite (run attack) contacts (all) sprite (blocks) then (stand1 animation).
All members that are used in collision detection get one behaviour attached, "collisionhandler". 30 Minutes to write + test. Reusable like the one above.
6 Select Controls to set to run left on your joystick to say (tap) (left), (hold) (left) to run.
Attach my behaviour "Joystick-Controller" to the sprite.
7 Sound to select a running sound
This behaviour is part of the director standard library.
8 bounding box can vary for each animation.
Well, that's some more work to do. A small XTra in C++ for the box editor form. But writing the scripts is done in few hours.
Writing a complete engine from scratch needs several man-years.

If you are able to write such a game engine, you will be laughing at director/lingo and how easy it is to use. You could write some scripts to add the features you mentioned above to director. A few days, and you'll be done. Then you have a prototype for verifying the usability of such a system.

Writing such a system is not the problem. But I still think that it is impossible to create quality games with point-n-click work at all. You need at minimum some basic scripting capabilities.

... just my 2ct
M.

just curious... ever heard of Klik & Play?

M.Hirsch

You say you are available to make it, but that it also take years, so if you just add on to them with this interface would it work out better and faster?
Do you have a site that has a demo of it or the home page of the program director? I think that director looks simple to you, because you are a code wizard.

Also thanks for breaking it down about the other program but some things seem to take long like you have said since you said it takes 15 minutes for a "animate sprite", and "collision handler" 30 Minutes, and for each will take a great deal of time.

Programming is like using DOS, and a user interface game engine is like using windows it almost seems.

I agree that "Writing a complete engine from scratch needs several man-years." if things are not organized and if the engine is very long. Building a complete home from top to bottom with a world record of around 6 hours, because things are well organized. Even Mario64 took 5 years to make but now it takes far less time. We have evolved in technology and ignore to make simpler programs like 2d engines better.

You say a point and click can not make a great game but if you look at great games like Zelda, sonic, R-type and more follow a basic concept. If you can make those “basic” games well and fast then that’s good, but to make a game like Castlevania symphony of the nigh