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    Question My list of website building skills ,complete ?


    i want to be able to build a "pro grade" dynamic web site myself , so from what i know (from my general computer knowledge) is that i will need:
    HTML/CSS
    +
    client site scripting language : the one i know is javascript
    +
    server side scripting language : most commonly ASP or PHP along with a database like MSSQL server or Mysql
    +
    graphic design knowledge : most commonly Photoshop

    (flash was dropped on purpose)

    the question is :anything else missing from the list ?
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    It's also helpful to know how to configure the web server (e.g. Apache, Litespeed, IIS) you're using.

    The issue with all of these skills is that your depth of knowledge and experience in each of them is important. Very few people are good enough in all of those areas themselves to make what I would call a quality website. Most quality web sites are built by a team.
    Spreading knowledge, one newbie at a time.

    Check out my blog. | Learn CSS. | PHP includes | X/HTML Validator | CSS validator | Common CSS Mistakes | Common JS Mistakes

    Remember people spend most of their time on other people's sites (so don't violate web design conventions).
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    To date I've never met a programmer that I consider to be particularly skilled when it comes to graphic design, and vice versa. Including myself.
    PHP FAQ

    Originally Posted by Spad
    Ah USB, the only rectangular connector where you have to make 3 attempts before you get it the right way around
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    well i guess it is too big of a field
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    I second the "team" comment. You are gonna need a lot of knowledge in a lot of areas. You haven't even gotten into the actual data model...Just drawing up a USEABLE model can sometimes be a task all by itself. Then...you want to use a MODERN framework and not that crummy, old, out-of-date SQL. Once again...the framework can be a task allllll by itself. It is hard to draw a model, build layers with new technology, do C#, do JS, AND handle the UI. Few take that on unless the project is small.
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    Originally Posted by naynay447
    not that crummy, old, out-of-date SQL
    Hmm.... What would you suggest to use instead of SQL?
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    Originally Posted by Catacaustic
    Hmm.... What would you suggest to use instead of SQL?
    Entity Framework. The CRUD is all sent and returned with objects.
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    Originally Posted by naynay447
    Entity Framework. The CRUD is all sent and returned with objects.
    There's a lot of other framewokrs around that do the same sort of ORM, and they all do this in pretty much the same fashion. They are useful, and can get things done quicker when you're doing most things, but there's always some drawbacks or trade-offs to consider as well.

    While these can be good sometimes I've found that most aren't flexible enough to do some real hard-core queries that I've needed to do, and no matter what they claim, there's no way that using wrapper classes/functions like that can be as fast as using a direct query.

    So what happens when you get to a point where your ORM system can't handle the query that you need to build and you don't know the SQL to build a standard query yourself? When you really use any sort of system like that, you do really need to know the behind-the-scenes stuff so that you can understand the limitations of the systems that you're using (and they all have limitations).
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    Originally Posted by Catacaustic
    There's a lot of other framewokrs around that do the same sort of ORM, and they all do this in pretty much the same fashion. They are useful, and can get things done quicker when you're doing most things, but there's always some drawbacks or trade-offs to consider as well.

    While these can be good sometimes I've found that most aren't flexible enough to do some real hard-core queries that I've needed to do, and no matter what they claim, there's no way that using wrapper classes/functions like that can be as fast as using a direct query.

    So what happens when you get to a point where your ORM system can't handle the query that you need to build and you don't know the SQL to build a standard query yourself? When you really use any sort of system like that, you do really need to know the behind-the-scenes stuff so that you can understand the limitations of the systems that you're using (and they all have limitations).
    I dunno...If it is that "hard-core," you can do it in a console. I couldn't imagine a run-time query being so extensive that you have to ditch object oriented CRUD. I see what you are saying, but you can always manipulate the objects in your repositories so they don't return so much. If you are hitting a server for 1 GB so you can get 1 MB of specific data, you can just manipulate the object before it is even GOTTEN or change your model. Casting an entity to a list and getting a specific STRING is easily done without SQL. I am sure your point is very valid, BUT nobody writes SQL anymore, and if you need to, SQL tutorials are a dime a dozen. Could I have a specific example? I am very interested in a system that large.
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    The examples that I've had in the past are reports. I've had to generate reports from anywhere up to 35 tables with very specific join conditions on top of overall search conditions, and I have yet to find an ORM that will handle every variation of conditions that I've needed to generate before. Because these reports need to be available online, and available to unskilled users, you can't do them in a console, and they had to be live (for current financial positions, etc), so no caching was available either.

    As for "nobody writes SQL any more", I do find that hard to believe. I know that most ORM's can do 99.999% of what everyone wants, but like I said at the start, there will always be a condition that the ORM won't handle.

    I'm also not sure about your point of manipulating data before it's returned. Wouldn't that be just more overhead form the ORM system that could be done by the database if it was a properly structured query?

    SQL tutorials are a dime-a-doezn. But looking at that point {insert technology here} tutorials are a dime-a-dozen. The issue is that good tutorials are hard to find, especially when you are trying to find some more obscure references and functions.

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