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#1
June 8th, 2003, 12:18 PM
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Water
I just started reading about this (relatively) new language "Water".
Some are saying it is the language to end all languages. Of course, I am skeptical, but I am keeping my mind open to a language that would simplify a lot of programming tasks, and eliminate a lot of the low-level crap that is so time-consuming with other languages, most notably Java and C++. Has anybody worked with Water extensively, or minimally, and have any opinions about it?
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#2
June 8th, 2003, 02:04 PM
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One problem with it is the "seamless integration of code and HTML". Anyone who's built large web applications knows that this SUCKS for maintainability and flexibility. (This is also one of my major beefs with PHP- it encourages this kind of development)
What happens 2-3 years down the road when standards change? Or if you want to repurpose your content for mobile devices, print output, or the blind? Or if you want to create affliate sites that share your code base but look different? All that mixing of presentation and logic makes any of the above very difficult. Adding extra layers of indirection to do different types of output sucks as well. Sorry, but a web-specific language that starts from with this fatal flaw as an "advantage" is something I'll probably stay away from. Who knows? Maybe it'll be a contender in a few years.
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#3
June 8th, 2003, 05:15 PM
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Thanks for your thoughts.
Not having used the language at all, my biggest concern was--as another poster mentioned--that there are almost no online resources for it. Yet one of it's proponents said they've been using it for 2 years. I checked on Amazon as well, and only found 2 books--one of which said it was out of print. My follow up would be: Where do you think languages are going? Will things get simpler? I just find it a bit tedious that I have to create all these different objects and "factories"--or whatever they're calling them these days--to parse out a line of XML in Java. You'd think that by now things should have gotten easier and simpler for programmers. Today's "real" languages are just too complex, tedious, and still force you to deal with low-level stuff, which is both unnecessary and prone to human error. Plus it diverts unnecessary time and energy away from solving business problems. I have to think it's gotta get better than this. What's next? Heard anything? Got any ideas?
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#4
June 8th, 2003, 08:12 PM
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I agree with your concerns about complexity. . . Given time and a sincere desire to make things easier, programmers TEND to find a way to simplify (vast generalization, I know).
Look at perl's CPAN if you want to find a repository of code created by geeks to make complex tasks easier- for instance, to load an XSL stylesheet, load and validate an XML file, and apply a transform the entirety of the code is: Code:
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
use XML::LibXSLT;
use XML::LibXML;
my $parser = XML::LibXML->new();
$parser->validation(1);
my $xslt = XML::LibXSLT->new();
my $source = $parser->parse_file('arttest.xml');
my $style_doc = $parser->parse_file('mlsdocbook.xsl');
my $stylesheet = $xslt->parse_stylesheet($style_doc);
my $results = $stylesheet->transform($source);
print $stylesheet->output_string($results);
I'd LOVE to see more languages have a user-created, moderated, and reviewed repository of mostly GPL'd code. It's amazing how much you can get done with CPAN behind you. Given that the web (at least for developers) seems to be moving more and more towards a "smart mob" (google for it) system, I'd love to see these principles applied to languages and libraries. CPAN is a start. . . Last edited by Hero Zzyzzx : June 8th, 2003 at 08:16 PM.
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#5
June 8th, 2003, 08:17 PM
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And I LIKE ending tags- it makes things more explicit and readable.
Implicit (usually) == confusing. Whatever. To each his own.
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